NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 108 FLOORS

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

first the horrible yards model now this.... today is a cursed day,cant it just end....

[STR]

^In other words "Nobody wanted to pay what we're asking, so we're going to keep boxes of crap up there, kinda like a U-store-it."

[Don098]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

This is sad.

"New World Trade Center developers scrap plans for Windows on the World-type restaurant"

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...1OYfdC38wKeaKL

Funny, I was just thinking the other day about how they'd possibly be able to attract customers as you wouldn't have pedestrian traffic, and you'd be way too reliant on a sole base of customers: tourists. After three months, all of the workers would get sick of it. Plus, you wouldn't have much evening traffic when the tourists go away. There's no way you'd get enough reservations each night to keep it alive. The novelty would wear off quickly.

[STR]

^And yet the preceding restaurant was the highest grossing eatery on the planet, and held that title for decades. Which is why the space itself, and the idea itself wasn't the problem. It was something else, and my guess was is the PA's desired rent. My only question at the moment is what are they looking to do with the space. It's on a separate elevator bank from the office floors (with no way to get to it without retuning to the lobby and taking the express bank), they don't need any more broadcast space, since the two floors slated for that are also empty. The observation deck is already 2 floors now. There's more than enough mechanical space for the building's needs.

I'm betting the floor sits empty until someone pony's up enough money to satisfy the PA. It will serve part time as an event space, which will gut any chance for such an operation in 2 World Trade.

[Onn]

Exactly! How could anyone NOT want the space, it's an investor's gold mine!

[Don098]

Originally Posted by STR

^And yet the preceding restaurant was the highest grossing eatery on the planet, and held that title for decades.

The United States, not the world. I just looked it up.

[STR]

US or the World doesn't matter. I wasn't trying to argue about titles. I was refuting the assertion that a skyline restaurant is inherently unprofitable.

[Don098]

Originally Posted by STR

US or the World doesn't matter. I wasn't trying to argue about titles. I was refuting the assertion that a skyline restaurant is inherently unprofitable.

Highest-grossing does not mean that PROFITS were good. Restaurants cost a lot of money to run, and the rent for a floor that high up is pretty ridiculous. The eventual demand for that space will be astronomical. Just because your restaurant is packed doesn't mean your turning a profit, not with a staff of nearly 150 people. The PA probably realized that an office tenant could generate steadier income for them. Restaurants are notoriously difficult to keep "fresh" and keep customers coming.

Personally I was looking forward to eating there someday, and I'm disappointed with the PA's decision. But restaurants are not doing well these days, even the best ones. This isn't 2000 when the economy was in WAY better shape than it is now. Trust me, I'm in the restaurant business. This is a VERY difficult economy for the service industry so expecting the demand that was present over a decade ago is not an accurate assumption to make. That's my point...

[STR]

Originally Posted by Don098

Highest-grossing does not mean that PROFITS were good.

Highest grossing does mean you have an excellent chance for good profits. Highest grossing can keep you in the black, when by all rights you should have closed up and gone away years ago. Even General Motors was able to turn profits for decades despite horrible business practices. However, we're not talking about a business that complicated. It's really just (price/plate)*turnover minus overhead, and the equation works out fine unless the overhead was jacked up beyond all repair due to unrealistic rents.

The eventual demand for that space will be astronomical...The PA probably realized that an office tenant could generate steadier income for them.

The "demand will be astronomical" for...what? It's not set up to be an office floor. Nobody is going pay north of $100/sf and be forced to ride up with sweaty summer tourists getting off the floor below yours. Let's ignore the fact that they'd have to re-engineer the level to contain adequate lighting and IT infrastructure, as they'd theoretically still have time to do that. I will note the fact that the 102nd has something like 25 feet from floor to ceiling, and that's about 10 feet more than any other general office space in the city.

It was a purpose built, single-use floor and now that the sole purpose for that floor's existence has been scrapped, there's no good use to fill it back up.

This is a VERY difficult economy for the service industry so expecting the demand that was present over a decade ago is not an accurate assumption to make.

Irrelevant since the space wouldn't have opened until 2014 at the earliest. The economy of the last 3 years is not exemplary of what it will be like in the next 3. However, the PA might have been stuck in the exact kind of thinking you warn against, they might have been pricing based on unrealistic numbers from 2000-2001, and wouldn't budge on rent for at least the first few years. On the other hand, operators might have been estimating based on 2008-2009 numbers, underestimating income. It's hard to say. The hard fact is that we're looking at actual dead space in the top of this building.

[Don098]

I don't understand why you're talking in such absolutes and past tense when the floors don't even exist yet, and they won't for another 6 months at least. You're telling me that they can't redesign two floors in that amount of time. The constraints you speak of - wiring and lighting - sound like extremely minuscule and trivial augmentations based upon a tenant's needs. Don't companies come and go all the time, and spaces are converted from restaurants to businesses and back again all the time? I don't understand why you sound so sure that this will become a dead space. It clearly won't be because then the PA would DEFINITELY lose money. I mean, that's just silly to think that they wouldn't have alternative plans for the floors if they aren't using them for a restaurant...

[STR]

Originally Posted by Don098

The constraints you speak of - wiring and lighting - sound like extremely minuscule and trivial augmentations based upon a tenant's needs.

Originally Posted by STR

Let's ignore [that] fact

Reading, it's a good thing. Which, if you had done that, you'd know that the real issue wasn't the wiring, but that the stacking plan isn't set up for some random office floor. Period. That would require considerable redesign, which since that would cause a delay, is simply not going to happen here. It's a more complex issue (and therefore less plausible) than the one that popped up (and was shot down by ZenSteelDude) when someone asked a few months back if the broadcast facilities on 89 & 90 could be turned into offices when the story came out that they were going to sit empty for years since broadcaster's weren't relocating from Midtown.

Just because something is 6 months out does NOT mean it isn't fixed. That's the difference between restaurant management (which is what you alluded to being your career) and project management, which was my last gig (PM being an inherently temporary job). The order for steel for the 102nd has been placed. It might have even been fabricated. Any major alteration would involve cancelling orders, rebidding contracts and delaying the completion of this severely delayed project. Given that this is a public funded project subject to mercurial politicians (who are more volatile, less educated, and beholden to many more interests than a private developer) another delay could cost people their heads.

Which is why something major like re-purposing the space for offices is NOT going to happen. This is ultimately a good thing, because that means the space will likely be available to the public in some form, again, most likely as a space for private parties. It is bad, because a restaurant would have really rocked. I know whenever I'm well enough dressed and on Michigan Ave I pop into the 95th in the Hancock Center for a drink.

[Don098]

Originally Posted by STR

Reading, it's a good thing.

So is proper grammar if you gonna be like that...

[STR]

Originally Posted by Don098

THE FLOORS DON'T EXIST YET!!! THEY CAN CHANGE WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT!!

Originally Posted by STR

Just because something is 6 months out does NOT mean it isn't fixed. That's the difference between restaurant management (which is what you alluded to being your career) and project management, which was my last gig (PM being an inherently temporary job). The order for steel for the 102nd has been placed. It might have even been fabricated. Any major alteration would involve cancelling orders, rebidding contracts and delaying the completion of this severely delayed project. Given that this is a public funded project subject to mercurial politicians (who are more volatile, less educated, and beholden to many more interests than a private developer) another delay could cost people their heads.

Given that this post will be deleted in the morning, along with yours, I'm not going beyond requoting what I already explained.

[Don098]

Originally Posted by STR

Given that this post will be deleted in the morning, along with yours, I'm not going beyond requoting what I already explained.

And for the record, the restaurant biz is not my career. It's my current gig leftover from my internship.

[sw5710]

I thought the 3.1billion included the restaurant.

[DarthVaper77]

So I'm new to this site, as I was previously a member of Skyscrapercity.com (anyone know what happened to that site? I can no longer access it.) But anyway I really like the new building and love seeing the updates, can't wait until it is finished. I would have loved to see two of these buildings being built, but hey what are you going to do?

[JACKinBeantown]

From kooljoe on SSC.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xurijoe/5509389254/

[RKOwens44]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

This is sad.

"New World Trade Center developers scrap plans for Windows on the World-type restaurant"

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...1OYfdC38wKeaKL

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

I thought this had to be a joke at first! The articles says the restaurant was "shelved due to concerns about cost and the difficulty of finding a restaurateur willing to run a likely money-losing operation" and Chris Ward says, "These things are always money-losers. We think we can achieve a far better financial return given the [quality of the] space and avoid all the complexiities." That makes absolutely zero sense! Before 9/11, Windows on the World was THE NUMBER ONE HIGHEST GROSSING RESTAURANT IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES! I'm sure it was one of the highest grossing in the world too. How in the F**K can Ward call it a "money-loser"??? The number one highest grossing restaurant in the country is not what I'd call a money loser! And I'm sure the popularity of the new World Trade Center, once it's fully completed, is going to be even greater post-9/11.

This is just completely ludicrous. The restaurant was one of the only great things about the new site plan. And before you say I'm just a hater and start apologizing on the Port Authority's behalf, I've been following the rebuilding every single day for four years, I've been inside 1WTC, I've donated to the memorial, yet it's constantly one piece of horrible news after the other. First it was no outdoor observation deck atop 1WTC, then it was the drastic delay for T2 and T3 and T5, then the scaling back of the oculus, then it was the shrinking of the memorial footprints, then the tranquil blue design for the memorial pools being changed to the morbid and death-like colors of black and dark grey, now no Windows on the World atop 1WTC. More and more I'm simply losing any and all passion and interest in the rebuilding.

[meh_cd]

Originally Posted by Onn

"New York City already has plenty of great restaurants," Ward said.

Ohh well, I guess America dosen't think big anymore. What a jerk.

Chicago does. As STR posted above me: The Signature Room in John Hancock. Last time I was there, I just hopped in the express elevator and hit the button for the 95th floor. No security to deal with, just like the good old days.

STR pretty much covered it: the floor can't be redesigned without causing a delay or costing a ton of money because the orders for the steel are either already out, or the steel is already fabricated and sitting in a warehouse. And what freaking company is going to pay the rent for offices with a 25 foot ceiling? I'd say Goldman Sachs, but they have their shiny hunk of junk across the street and their days are numbered at best.

STR is right. It'll probably be event space for the time being - which is bad for us "common folk." Once the complex is finished, I think we'll see a restaurant a few years down the road. Or, perhaps Silverstein will decide to place a restaurant at the top of 2 WTC instead. That'd be killer.

Originally Posted by STR

It is bad, because a restaurant would have really rocked. I know whenever I'm well enough dressed and on Michigan Ave I pop into the 95th in the Hancock Center for a drink.

I pop up in a sweatshirt and jeans. I think they hate me.

Originally Posted by RKOwens44

More and more I'm simply losing any and all passion and interest in the rebuilding.

Ward is probably throwing out the "money loser" quip because most of the general public has no idea that WOTW was the highest grossing restaurant in the country. I haven't lost all interest myself, but like you it is waning.

[hunser]

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC

From kooljoe on SSC.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xurijoe/5509389254/

it's a nice shot, worth being posted here:

xurijoe