DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by Matt

Has anyone seen Denver Channel 7 (ABC Affiliate) run their emotional piece, asserting the idea of "Does 650 17th Street belong in Denver?" Pure puff piece intended to capture the audience of all the anti-growthers in Colorado who believe nothing here should ever, ever change - because Colorado is so sacred. No reporting on the actual building, just automatically reporting the building as a potential assault on the very sacred character of Denver. And, of course, it will block the mountains.

Seriously, check out this video and the one that auto-plays immediately after it. The building is "MAMMOTH" and "MASSIVE" (even how they pronounce the words is extremely telling of how biased their reporting is). Absolutely pathetic, Denver Channel 7.

Videos here: https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...-future-growth

The news piece was way over blown with fear mongering. First off, it isn't going to affect any view. The Front range goes on for almost 200 miles. Move a little to each side and you can see plenty. Stupid argument. Another guy said it was out of scale for the neighborhood. WHATTTTTTT? Get real dude. It's right in the heart of the freakin' financial center of the city. Then there was the argument that all these historic buildings will be lost. Hellloooooooo, it's going on a parking lot. This news report was Smallville USA. This is Denver, Colorado. Growth is coming. Building up isn't the problem, building out is.

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by Denver

Tryba should be ashamed to put their name on that building. It looks exactly like the addition to the rescue mission that went up a couple years ago.

The first rendering is awesome. Love how RMPBS would cantilever over the street. Last rendering looked like new architecture in the 60's. Plain and brutal.

[Matt]

Full Size: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4765/2...8f28984c_o.jpg

It's amazing how the CPV area has become a skyline in and of itself, with The Confluence clearly being the "signature tower" to anchor everything new being built in the CPV. I was also amazed at the increased density and number of tower cranes.

[pablosan]

An amazing transformation. In my mind that is one of the best vanatage points in the whole city.

[Matt]

Thanks!

I actually took a panorama with much closer resolution that has a larger extent, since that one photo didn't showcase all the new development. The full size is 80MB and 30,000 pixels wide, so let it load in your browser before scrolling across. I highly recommend checking out the full size pano.

Preview:



FULL SIZE (80MB, BUT TOTALLY WORTH IT!): https://www.flickr.com/photos/767519...43190/sizes/o/

[BG918]

New tower crane going up in Jeff. Park near W 23rd & I-25. Saw it driving today. This is the project:





http://milehighcre.com/two-new-apartment-towers/

[twister244]

And just like that, developers are already taking advantage of the very very recent zoning changes that were approved for the RiNo area:

https://businessden.com/2018/02/26/m...treet-project/

[twister244]

And more fun on the Elitch's Side:

https://www.denverite.com/elitch-gardens-48836/

That article gives a cool background on how Elitch's got be where it is now. More importantly though, there's a link to a Denver plan ammendment site, which contains a link to the PDF - https://www.denvergov.org/content/da...view_draft.pdf

And a public survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/H3S9JXB

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by twister244

And more fun on the Elitch's Side:

https://www.denverite.com/elitch-gardens-48836/

That article gives a cool background on how Elitch's got be where it is now. More importantly though, there's a link to a Denver plan ammendment site, which contains a link to the PDF - https://www.denvergov.org/content/da...view_draft.pdf

And a public survey link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/H3S9JXB

The whole future of Elitch's is such an interesting question as, ultimately, it looks to be the area of future dense growth in the city. Part of that would be considering whether both the amusement park and arena have a future in the area.

From my own viewpoint, keeping Elitch's downtown is not a priority but a downtown arena makes more sense. All of that (baring Amazon) is probably a decade away I would think.

[twister244]

There are two distinct things I took away from that PDF:

1.) The city WANTS high density in that area, which would entail rezoning to allow taller buildings. That's a win for sure.

2.) In all of the images/maps showing future roads/trails/etc, Elitch's appears to not be a part of the future of that area. In many of the maps, new roads go right through where Elitch's is today.

I haven't had time to read through the document in detail, but if the city is planning a future without Elitch's in the picture, that's a direct contradiction to the owners of the park who insist they aren't going anywhere.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

The whole future of Elitch's is such an interesting question as, ultimately, it looks to be the area of future dense growth in the city. Part of that would be considering whether both the amusement park and arena have a future in the area.

From my own viewpoint, keeping Elitch's downtown is not a priority but a downtown arena makes more sense. All of that (baring Amazon) is probably a decade away I would think.

Nothing has changed in my mind other than looking at developing the 17 acres of parking attached to Elitch Gardens. Beyond that I'm assuming the park will be around for decades. I'm projecting that if Revesco Properties ever wants to cash out, the Kroenke Family Trust will step in and preserve Elitch Gardens for families to forever enjoy.

I also assume Kroenke has no interest in selling the Pepsi Center/site which I believe is on a ground lease for maybe six more years. I also expect the Pepsi Center to be around for many decades. What development Kroenke might consider is anybody's guess.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I also expect the Pepsi Center to be around for many decades. What development Kroenke might consider is anybody's guess.

Hardly any sports facilities last for "decades" (if you mean more than two of them) any more. Two baseball stadiums newer then Coors Field have already been replaced. The prior arena, McNichols, lasted only 24 years. Pepsi Center opened in 2000, so will be 18 years old this year.

At the time of the Elitch's acquisition, the CEO of Revesco, Rhys Duggan said:

“We love the park. It’s a great business that just happens to be located on an important piece of land for the city,” said Duggan, who owns the Shoppes at Castle Rock and LoHi’s Old Major restaurant building. “There is no redevelopment plan. It’s a great opportunity to buy an operating business. We will look at it over time, as we do with all of our assets. But right now, it’s business as usual for the park.”

https://www.denverpost.com/2015/06/0...ed-by-kroenke/


When he says it's an amusement park that "just happens to be located on an important piece of land" I don't think he means it's an important piece of land because Elitch's is on it. I'd read it as it's "an important piece of land" because down the road, it has a different use than what it's currently being used for.

[DenvertoLA]

complete opinion:

I don't get the value of having a park that is so limited in size that it can't build any decent sized rollercoasters. Yeah there is a novelty to it, but the city could save that by putting the marry-go-round or some other ride in a park with a historic sign.

Denver needs a good sized theme park out in the plains where huge rides can be built.

[Robert.hampton]

'Denver mega-skyscraper project has no land, says owner of downtown property that had been under contract'

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/2...enver-no-land/


Ouch, what a total disaster Greenwich Realty Capital has turned out to be.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

'Denver mega-skyscraper project has no land, says owner of downtown property that had been under contract'

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/2...enver-no-land/


Ouch, what a total disaster Greenwich Realty Capital has turned out to be.

How come this article doesn't even load?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Hardly any sports facilities last for "decades" (if you mean more than two of them) any more. Two baseball stadiums newer then Coors Field have already been replaced. The prior arena, McNichols, lasted only 24 years. Pepsi Center opened in 2000, so will be 18 years old this year.

When he says it's an amusement park that "just happens to be located on an important piece of land" I don't think he means it's an important piece of land because Elitch's is on it. I'd read it as it's "an important piece of land" because down the road, it has a different use than what it's currently being used for.

I recall the sale of Elitch Gardens. I'll meet you part way. I'll assume the potential redevelopment on just the 17 acre parking area will take 15 years... not likely to even break ground for at least 6 years. We can revisit the heart of the park at that time.

NBA makes its money on tee vee and merchandise, not so much on home game attendance; not sure about the Avalanche. There's no reason to replace the Pepsi Center so long as it's not falling down. That said, the current site holds enough land to build a replacement should that be the preferred course which means Kroenke will hold onto the parking lots for that purpose. They could easily build a new arena on the Camry Lot. Btw, like several other teams, KSE is looking at developing a new state-of-the-art workout/rehab facility to serve all of the local sports franchises but I suspect the new Rams stadium development is capitalizing most of his time.

I don't recall Kroenke ever selling one of his sports franchises. Josh is currently in Highbury, London, for three months to get close and personal with the Arsenal soccer team. He currently runs the sports end (as opposed to business end) of everything in Colorado. Why would they even consider selling their site?

Coors Field will still be around when your great grandchildren are cheering for the Rockies.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Coors Field will still be around when your great grandchildren are cheering for the Rockies.

We got lucky with Coors Field, it was an exceptional build. With the new lease and investment, in indeed looks like a place that very well may still be in use for another 30 years or longer.

Poor Dallas and Atlanta, ended up paying for two stadiums each.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

'Denver mega-skyscraper project has no land, says owner of downtown property that had been under contract'

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/2...enver-no-land/


Ouch, what a total disaster Greenwich Realty Capital has turned out to be.

New concept drawings just released:

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

'Denver mega-skyscraper project has no land, says owner of downtown property that had been under contract'

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/2...enver-no-land/


Ouch, what a total disaster Greenwich Realty Capital has turned out to be.

Hopefully something happens with El Jebel, Two Tabor, or Amazon now that 650 looks dead.

[HighRanch]

As they say, "All hat and no cattle"