Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[technomad]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Fun fact: the federal and provincial ministers of infrastructure are both former Edmonton bus drivers. If we're ever going to get buy-in on our approved lines, the time is now.

might also explain the enthusiasm for 'bus on rails' LRT vs. getting an actual rapid transit line for the billions spent

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Edmonton has some pretty constrained corridors. Even to run the Valley Line (the new line) like the older lines in Calgary and Edmonton would require a lot more expropriation.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ Edmonton has some pretty constrained corridors. Even to run the Valley Line (the new line) like the older lines in Calgary and Edmonton would require a lot more expropriation.

that's largely due to route selection though, and while the SE leg isn't too bad on it's own (beyond the train stopping at red lights..), it's the decision to run on the surface in the core, and the gong show of the west end route that kills the project for me.

far more expropriation needed for SPR vs 87 av, and no benefit gained imo

[MalcolmTucker]

Blame rich NIMBYs for that one

[technomad]

all expropriations are equal, but some expropriations are more equal than others?

yeah, I recall the objections at the time.. but I think part of that would fall on a lousy pitch from the city.. 'what, you don't want your property values to go up?'

putting the public art component of the project into the bridge design would have helped sell it too. doubt having something that looked like the peace bridge running through the valley would have ruined their property values either

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'll have to disagree with you here too; These cities started to build their metros at 1M, but we have to remember that they had RT in the form of streetcars and trams for almost a century before that. And although they definitely weren't rapid transit after the 1940s, until then, there were relatively few other road users (other than in the core) for it to be considered RT. And unlike the heavy rail which came later, these lines were built to both address existing demand and structure the growth which would spring up later along the line.

Here's an interesting picture of Montreal's Rosemont neighbourhood as it was being built along the newly-installed streetcar line to nowhere:



I think that KW's LRT is more akin to a pre-war interurban streetcar line (whose purpose was to structure greenfield development as well as move existing transportation demand) than it is to a post-war metro (which were built to address transportation demand and, in Toronto and Vancouver, structure urban redevelopment).

With that in mind, I would consider that KW is building their line at the right time; as the city grows, its LRT will structure its greenfield development as well as its densification. The disadvantage is that, for the first few years, the seats won't always be full. But I think that's an acceptable price to pay for well-structured, long-term development.

Someone at UT posted this - Danforth and Woodbine 1915.

I guess, this was the subway to Vaughan, but back in the day.

http://worldwidewickens.com/wp-conte...oodbinejpg.jpg


image from blogto

[caltrane74]

Kitchener trains being prepared for loading in Thunder Bay Tom Galloway - Twitter



all the trains/streetcars (4432) /eglinton LRT together again up in thunder bay -


Chris Dew - Twitter

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Someone at UT posted this - Danforth and Woodbine 1915.

I guess, this was the subway to Vaughan, but back in the day.

http://worldwidewickens.com/wp-conte...oodbinejpg.jpg


image from blogto

No, it's not comparable to the subway to Vaughan today. People own cars. Roads are paved. The streetcar was the lifeblood for the communities along the routes. It's more comparable to the Alaskan Railway or other northern communities that aren't accessible by roads 12 months out of the year.

[Coldrsx]

Had the pleasure of emceeing the media event for our Mayor this afternoon to do a final big push for West LRT commitments.


https://twitter.com/IanOyeg

[caltrane74]

They put up fencing on the sidewalks at Yonge and Eglinton and they have also begun jackhammering the sidewalks... I don't know if it is for Subway reconstruction / LRT underground subway rebuilding or if it is for Tunnel Boring Machine Excavation. Almost went deaf today walking by there.

here is my picture from yesterday

[caltrane74]

The Metrolinx girls were handing out flyers yesterday in regards to tunnel closures to make way for Eglinton Line 5 platform construction.

[caltrane74]

Sad Day for Bombardier

I can only think of one other rail car manufacturer in Ontario up and running already making the required rail cars in province. They could replace Bombardier in a quick instant. (Well 2 years delivery date / Nov 2018)

[WhipperSnapper]

Would this be just for assembly or a new manufacturer and new vehicles? I can't think of another LRT operation in Ontario which led to the long drawn out conversation about Bombardier.

[niwell]

Personally I think this is an empty threat to try and leverage Bombardier. Setting up a new production line with another manufacturer doesn't seem particularly feasible without pushing back timelines further...

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by niwell

Personally I think this is an empty threat to try and leverage Bombardier. Setting up a new production line with another manufacturer doesn't seem particularly feasible without pushing back timelines further...

Ottawa...

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by niwell

Personally I think this is an empty threat to try and leverage Bombardier. Setting up a new production line with another manufacturer doesn't seem particularly feasible without pushing back timelines further...

Pretty much.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Ottawa...

Isn't an option. They need their manufacturing plant for storage and maintenance of their own vehicles.

If you're implying the Eglinton yard could be used for manufacturing LRVs then that would require Eglinton's yard to be finished very soon. On the current timeline it's still years away from being ready.

The scale is also a little different; Ottawa is building 34 LRVs (18 months to 2 years for a single assembly line) for Phase 1 but Eglinton needs ~120LRVs for opening day; hard to do in 2 years (for 2021 finish) in a tiny facility.


Does anyone know how Ottawa will be growing the fleet for Phase 2? Will they do final assembly in Hornell?

[WhipperSnapper]

The orders aren't comparable. Also, manufacturing is done in the US. Only finally assembly is being in Ottawa. There are quite a few LRT manufacturers with US operations. Metrolinx has a good selection to pick from in that case.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The orders aren't comparable. Also, manufacturing is done in the US. Only finally assembly is being in Ottawa. There are quite a few LRT manufacturers with US operations. Metrolinx has a good selection to pick from in that case.

25% Canadian content was the highest level the TTC believed it could require and still get more than one bidder. Much easier in Alberta where there are none of those restrictions.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rbt

Does anyone know how Ottawa will be growing the fleet for Phase 2? Will they do final assembly in Hornell?

An additional 38 LRVs will be ordered. Based on the presentation, it sound like that is for the Confederation Line extension alone. They would again be manufactured in Hornell and assembled in Ottawa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-G...em-lbcastemail

31 minute mark.