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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2017, 11:48 PM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post
I live at Brentwood. It appears to me that highway expansion has dumped huge volumes of traffic onto local streets, where volumes have increased dramatically. I used to take Highway #1 fairly often. Now I avoid it like the plague. I have not been on it in months. In my opinion, this project has only had downsides for me and for my neighbourhood.

I was against the project. In my view, that money would have been better spent on a massive expansion of transit south of and across the Fraser. However, I realize that the project was probably politically irresistible, and my respect for democracy is such that I am willing to take my lumps. I agree with your main point that the cost of roads should be borne by all users. But the argument that I should pay because I benefit? Heck no. It's a disaster.
Brentwood densifying like crazy caused traffic in Brentwood, the highway was there first and is a lot better now than it used to be. And even if you personally don't use it, your neighbourhood has benefited immensely from new and improved infrastructure.

It blows my mind that someone in freakin' Brentwood of all places thinks they've been a victim from everything that's happened in the last 15 or so years. I'd argue you've had the most preferential treatment of the entire metro by a wide margin.

Come to my neighbourhood and see what 40 years of infrastructure neglect gets you. I can't leave after 3pm.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2017, 6:53 PM
cleowin cleowin is offline
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Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
Brentwood densifying like crazy caused traffic in Brentwood, the highway was there first and is a lot better now than it used to be. And even if you personally don't use it, your neighbourhood has benefited immensely from new and improved infrastructure.

It blows my mind that someone in freakin' Brentwood of all places thinks they've been a victim from everything that's happened in the last 15 or so years. I'd argue you've had the most preferential treatment of the entire metro by a wide margin.

Come to my neighbourhood and see what 40 years of infrastructure neglect gets you. I can't leave after 3pm.
I do agree that Highway 1 NoF is immensely busy all the way to the last Coquitlam Exit, but what's made traffic worse is the construction on Hwy 1 in North Vancouver. Still not sure why the BC GOV didn't just make hwy 1 a full 5 lanes with Collector/Express lanes from 160 ST in Surrey to Grandview HWY Exit, would have done a better job at separating the local traffic (those commuting from Willingdon to Brunette) for example.

With the tolls gone, I only expect the SoF portion to get busier, can't imagine how much more busier the NoF stretch will be considering most of the users go to Coquitlam and/or New West.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2017, 7:56 PM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Huh?

1. I didn't say Hwy 1 was "immensely busy" in Burnaby/Coquitlam. There's a lot of volume of course but it's better than it used to be thanks to all the recent improvements.

2. Interchange construction hasn't touched highway 1 in North Van yet. Almost all of it will be done without interfering with current traffic, out of necessity.

3. I dont see the point of collector lanes from Grandview to Surrey unless it didn't come at the cost of fewer lanes for everyone else, which of course it would.

4. Hwy 1 north of Fraser will get more busy because many people will use Port Mann again instead of Pattullo and Alex Fraser. The majority of people are going to and from Vancouver, the ferries and the north shore/Whistler where jobs and tourist destinations are, not sleepy eastern suburbs.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 8:20 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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well... everyone is back to work and school has started but I didn't notice an increase in traffic crossing the PMB WB this morning. It seemed like a normally tolled day. Anyone else have a different experience?
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 8:29 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
well... everyone is back to work and school has started but I didn't notice an increase in traffic crossing the PMB WB this morning. It seemed like a normally tolled day. Anyone else have a different experience?
There was a 3 car accident causing a huge delay according to the news. Not sure what time you crossed...

No doubt there will be more volume without tolls, but PMB has plenty of capacity, it won't be the bottleneck.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 8:35 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
There was a 3 car accident causing a huge delay according to the news. Not sure what time you crossed...

No doubt there will be more volume without tolls, but PMB has plenty of capacity, it won't be the bottleneck.
8:45 am
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 8:44 PM
logicbomb logicbomb is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
There was a 3 car accident causing a huge delay according to the news. Not sure what time you crossed...

No doubt there will be more volume without tolls, but PMB has plenty of capacity, it won't be the bottleneck.
Crossing onto the bridge...shouldn't be an issue.

On the other side, yes, the bottleneck will get worse around the Cape Horn and that's due to the confluence of traffic from the Mary Hill Bypass and Lougheed Hwy. Part of that is due to that stupid HOV design as motorist cut across 3 lanes of traffic to gain rapid access to the HOV lane.

Crossed @ 6:30am this morning, traffic was slowing to below 40km/hr near mid-span on the PMB due to the congestion. Keep in mind, the first day after Labour Day is not a true test as many take an extended weekend.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 8:50 PM
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i wonder if traffic will increase between langley and maple ridge, i can't imagine people would have avoided that bridge as much as the PM
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2017, 10:16 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
i wonder if traffic will increase between langley and maple ridge, i can't imagine people would have avoided that bridge as much as the PM
I think people will make more pleasure trips because the psychological ( toll ) barrier is gone. I doubt many commuters will change their habits.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 2:05 AM
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Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
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I only support road pricing of the money raised goes directly into skytrain and bus services.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 2:33 AM
moosejaw moosejaw is offline
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I only support road pricing of the money raised goes directly into skytrain and bus services.
Add road improvements to that list
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 4:46 AM
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VancouverOfTheFuture VancouverOfTheFuture is offline
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
I only support road pricing of the money raised goes directly into skytrain and bus services.
well we wouldn't want to stop that practice of charging drivers for not using transit; it is only fair for car drivers to pay even more for not using transit.

that money should ONLY go to the road network. usage fees of transit should go to transit. there has been more investment into the transit network since 1980 then there has in the road network. it has only started to change after neglecting our road network for 50 years and requiring action eventually.

whereas SkyTrain has been continuously updated from 1986, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2004, 2009, 2016.

where as road network was updated 1950s, 1974, 1986, 1993, 2012
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 5:32 AM
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Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
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Or... pool both transit and road pricing fares in one big "Transportation" fund for both. Preferential treatment will always be a problem, but go-it-alone is usually worse.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 5:32 AM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
well we wouldn't want to stop that practice of charging drivers for not using transit; it is only fair for car drivers to pay even more for not using transit.

that money should ONLY go to the road network. usage fees of transit should go to transit. there has been more investment into the transit network since 1980 then there has in the road network. it has only started to change after neglecting our road network for 50 years and requiring action eventually.

whereas SkyTrain has been continuously updated from 1986, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2004, 2009, 2016.

where as road network was updated 1950s, 1974, 1986, 1993, 2012
Ditto!!
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 4:31 PM
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CanSpice CanSpice is offline
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Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
where as road network was updated 1950s, 1974, 1986, 1993, 2012
It's kind of weird that you say this, because the Golden Ears Bridge and Pitt River Bridge both opened in 2009. The Cassiar Tunnel was opened in 1992. The SFPR opened in 2013. The Port Mann opened in 2015. And those are just the major projects I can think of off the top of my head, it doesn't include other smaller improvements to the road network over the years.

Saying the road network was only updated four times in the last forty-five years is just plain wrong.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 5:08 PM
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VancouverOfTheFuture VancouverOfTheFuture is offline
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Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
It's kind of weird that you say this, because the Golden Ears Bridge and Pitt River Bridge both opened in 2009. The Cassiar Tunnel was opened in 1992. The SFPR opened in 2013. The Port Mann opened in 2015. And those are just the major projects I can think of off the top of my head, it doesn't include other smaller improvements to the road network over the years.

Saying the road network was only updated four times in the last forty-five years is just plain wrong.
Cassiar i meant with the 1993 figure; i knew it was early 90s. Port Mann opened in 2012 which is why i said 2012, i combined the SFPR with the Port Mann since they were the same project and opened within a year of each other; but i will separate them out. i did forget about the Golden Ears/Pitt River though.

i also didn't include the SeaBus in 1977. nor did i include all the smaller improvements in the bus network and there have been many of billions put into that. if we start in 1980, there have still been a lot more investment into the Transit System then road system; this covers the past 37yrs.

Roads --- 1986(Highway 91), 1992(Cassiar), 2009(Golden Ears), 2012(Port Mann), 2013(SFPR).

Transit --- 1986(Expo), 1990(Expo), 1994(Expo), 1995(WestCoast Express), 2000(millennium), 2004(millennium), 2009(Canada), 2016(Evergreen).

lets face it, we know Broadway is coming along probably ~2025 and we know the Massey Bridge will probably be cancelled. then there are the almost positive Surrey Line in ~2022. so that reasonably assures 2 more big investments into transit and we are fairly positive the one upcoming road improvement will be cancelled. then you could look at the 10 billion dollar mayors plan for transit and their nonexistent, constant blocking/tearing down of road infrastructure as proof of the future especially with the GreenDP since they seem to think small-time thinking mayors can make big time over-their-pay-grade decisions.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 6:35 PM
bardak bardak is offline
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The entire justification of road pricing is to tax the externalization of traffic. It's the same idea as the carbon tax to tax the externalization of carbon emissions. The tax should be put into general revenue for the province and/or distributed to the municipalities.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2017, 7:16 PM
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Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture View Post
well we wouldn't want to stop that practice of charging drivers for not using transit; it is only fair for car drivers to pay even more for not using transit.

that money should ONLY go to the road network. usage fees of transit should go to transit. there has been more investment into the transit network since 1980 then there has in the road network. it has only started to change after neglecting our road network for 50 years and requiring action eventually.

whereas SkyTrain has been continuously updated from 1986, 1990, 1994, 2000, 2004, 2009, 2016.

where as road network was updated 1950s, 1974, 1986, 1993, 2012
The point of road pricing is to decrease driving and thus lower carbon emissions and fund transit. The end goal should be a better transit system so people do not need to drive everywhere. In a world as impacted by climate change as ours most certainly is, it's insane to continue building road infrastructure at a cost of public transit.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:14 PM
ClaytonA ClaytonA is offline
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If the NDP was strategic they'd replace the lost tollling revenue with an increase to the regional gas tax when gas prices are relatively low in the next few months before the BC Liberals' by-election result and before things like ICBC costs are realized. Get the pain with over with, as far before any possible election as possible.

Sell the gas tax with a sunset clause of this mobility pricing. In the meantime more electric cars can facilitate Site C (LOL/sarcasm).

One of the best things Gordon Campbell did in the mid 2000's was raise the gas tax to invest in highways. His transit plans from then didn't happen (Canada line already going ahead, Evergreen Line took another decade, BRT's just starting now) with Broadway and Surrey extensions plus all those BRT's.

You get what you invest in. If you're not willing to invest, then expect nothing to change for the better.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2017, 6:34 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by ClaytonA View Post
If the NDP was strategic they'd replace the lost tollling revenue with an increase to the regional gas tax when gas prices are relatively low in the next few months before the BC Liberals' by-election result and before things like ICBC costs are realized. Get the pain with over with, as far before any possible election as possible.

Sell the gas tax with a sunset clause of this mobility pricing. In the meantime more electric cars can facilitate Site C (LOL/sarcasm).

One of the best things Gordon Campbell did in the mid 2000's was raise the gas tax to invest in highways. His transit plans from then didn't happen (Canada line already going ahead, Evergreen Line took another decade, BRT's just starting now) with Broadway and Surrey extensions plus all those BRT's.

You get what you invest in. If you're not willing to invest, then expect nothing to change for the better.
Raising the gas tax will only make everything more expensive. Transportation/transit taxes should be tied to income just like MSP will be once the review is done. Everyone benefits from any improvements whether you drive or take transit. Just make the rich pay more. They can afford it.
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