Ontario's small cities stuck in time

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Blitz

Windsor is expected to have the fastest economic growth of any other city in the country this year. That's always how it's been though - we're the first to experience a recession and the first to really break out of it.

It's already come a long way since July 2009 when the unemployment rate was 15% and everyone was afraid we'd become the next Flint. There's still a way to go but the turnaround so far has been beyond what anyone expected.

The school issue in Windsor is still in some pretty weird. The population is said to be declining as families are leaving, and this is causing the school board to consider shutting down libraries in some schools. My cousin who just graduated from teachers college can't even find a job there, so she is going to have to look outside of Windsor.

Hopefully it turns around.

[Mister F]

I actually sort of agree with mike. Sort of. Canadian downtowns are great compared to the ones in the States, but they do feel small and quiet compared to European downtowns in cities the same size. If you compare even Ontario's best small city downtowns like Peterborough or Kingston with Oxford, England or Teplice, Czech Republic, the European ones feel significantly bigger and more lively. Another Czech city I've been to, Pilsen, feels like Canadian cities three or four times the size.

[boden]

Kingston rocks! I know what you are saying though................

[Nick.]

ontario's small cities suck big time. ok, catch ya later.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by CCF

It's miles above KW in my opinion. Considering Waterloo is Canada's most intelligent community, in my opinion that intelligence has failed to translate to planning practices.

Trying to create a cohesive plan for twin cities that are based on very different grids can be quite difficult.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Trying to create a cohesive plan for twin cities that are based on very different grids can be quite difficult.

Welcome to Thunder Bay.

[vid]

We've actually done quite well on that front. All of our main streets are connected, there are very few random ends anymore. We just need to get more diverse land use in Intercity.

[memph]

Guelph is pretty typical of a city it's size compared to others in Canada and the United States, but not compared to other countries, that's for sure. Cities in Spain with similar populations feel as if you took an entire arrondissement of Paris and plopped it in the countryside.

Just look at some of the smaller metro areas on this list...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Mind you, Spainish cities are much denser than those of more Northern European countries. Guelph's downtown feels comparable to that of a Spanish town of 5,000.

[bornagainbiking]

Canada's small towns can be quite interesting but mostly by day as there tends to be in many cases the sidewalks are rolled up and put away at 6.
Unless of course you are a University town which can cover you off Sept to June and like Kingston have the tourists in the summer.
I have had the good fortune of moving around a bit with jobs and training/seminars.
In North America we have the dream of the suburbs and I see here in Hamilton projects set up for 40,000 set up on the outskirts and then the Walmarts amd plazas follow. Schools etc etc. So there is no real local need for a "downtown".
Also, because many people commute and in some cases hours aday the last thing they want to do is drive. So we are in many cases "cocooning" large fridges and freezers and a weekly trip to Walmart or Costco. Large cupboards and bulk buying.
When I lived in a smaller German town (40,000), we had a fridge and it is what I would consider a bar fridge with a tiny freezer. So we walked down to the local bakery or grocery store and bought what we needed. Plenty of interaction and a rapport with the local businessman. So the downtown I lived in was occupied from morning to late evening and the locals lived over the shops.
Here we have a surge in for the morning and a mass exodus at 5.
So maybe it is all about design and living. I was in London a couple of times for extended business and during the week the streets were bare and the downtown mall basically closed at 6. You could rent the hallways out for bowling.
Only downtown Guelph once at night even though I have been there on business and the outlying hotels are nicer and offer great deals so no real need to be enticed to go downtown.
The downtowns have to be cleaned up and organized. Maybe Kingston could be a model as out of all the nights I am in a hotel it at least has a pulse or vibrancy that draws you out. Looking forward to a conference in Windsor to check it out as I have heard good things as well as several of my friiends have moved there for retirement.
Halifax is another city with a great downtown just too active and somewhat perilous at night. With the streets of bars for the university and waterfront crowd. Victoria has a nice downtown with lots of walking destinations. PEI has a great downtown as well as Sydney was nice and busy during the week from the business crowd, hard to find a room Mon-Fri. I lived in Northern Ontario and some downtowns are pretty slow in the winter. So hard to keep a business afloat or viable.
So I think that Ontarion towns are dated and may need to adapt or draw occupants back. Hamilton had a Great butchers shop downtown but it was forced to close. Times change and so do patterns.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

Looking forward to a conference in Windsor to check it out as I have heard good things as well as several of my friiends have moved there for retirement.

You will be disappointed, i'm afraid. Windsor's downtown is very boring, there are many vacant store fronts and empty offices in the area, homeless people begging for change and when it gets dark, the area is ruled by the local bars and it becomes (pardon my slang) quite sketchy.
although there have been plans announced for more University satellite campuses in the downtown, those developments have not begun yet and family aquatics centre is far from complete. One thing in Downtown that really irritates me is the Paul Martin Sr. building on Ouellette. It is owned by the federal government and has fallen into a state of disrepair. The street facing sides of the building are surrounded with scaffolding meant to protect pedestrians on sidewalks from the risk of falling limestone from the building's façade. It has been like this for nearly 4 years and has passed ridiculous. If you look at the building on Google maps street view, you can see the cracks in the stone which are actually quite large.
The area has gotten better than it was, but it still has a very long way
to go.

[Blitz]

^ You've just described every small city downtown in the province so let him decide for himself whether or not he'll be disappointed. The word 'boring' is so subjective - I'm sure he knows we're not going to have the same things that Toronto or Ottawa has...all we can do is to compare it to the other small cities in Ontario and I'd say we're all pretty much in the same boat.

[ssiguy]

London can actually be very busy at night due to the large student population and growing number of people moving downtown. Yes the downtown mall is dead but Talbot and especially Richmond can be very busy.

[Kong Tower]

The National Post ran an interesting article yesterday about Kitchener's little renaissance.

The link is here:

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/01...its-nightlife/

[AuxTown]

A better skyline comparison for these small cities would be Syracuse NY at pop- 150k. I agree that similar-size American cities have a much more urban feel compared to their Ontario counterparts. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the type of industry in those cities as well as when the city grew to its current population (most American ones much earlier). The older cities had much larger and cohesive CBDs whereas the Canadian ones are pretty sprawley. I agree that Kingston holds its own though (just not as tall).

Syracuse

from http://www.marriott.com/hotels/photo...WARI&imageID=1

Kingston

from http://harrisonpictures.photoshelter...000kSIPCiXnTVw

K-Dub

from http://www..com/showthread.php?t=6&page=2

Not fair since it's the capital but look at Little Rock!

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sk...-_20050319.jpg

[waterloowarrior]

It's important to compare metro populations rather than cities, since in many places cities can have historical boundaries that the actual urban area has gone well beyond (e.g. Vancouver population 603k, Boston 625k).

Syracuse has a metro population of 662k, Little Rock 710k (887k combined CSA). Kingston is 160k, Kitchener 447k (but part of a multi-city agglomeration)

[north 42]

Windsors' downtown is not as abad as Jacob has said, I live right DT and love it.its very busy on weekend nights and has lots of choices when it comes to dining and drinks, and we have Caesars if you prefer to gamble. A five minute drive through the tunnel and you are in downtown Detroit, which is actually full of great things to do, and the least sketchy area in the city.

As for the rest of Windsor, the are many great old neighbourhoods to explore, and just outside the city is wine country, the Essex Pelee Island coast vinicultural area called EPIC, which has 18 estate wineries offering tastings and tours. The wine from this region continues to win many awards, and the number of wineries keeps growing. Our county is also a peninsula, so we have over a hundred miles of coastline to explore, including Pelee Island and Point Pelee national park.

[kwoldtimer]

This piece from the National Post "Homes" section re Kitchener's efforts to re-invent itself seemed appropriate to post on this thread.

With a tech-sector-aided boom, Kitchener is rethinking everything from its housing to its nightlife

Shari Kulha | Jan 16, 2013 1:04 PM ET | Last Updated: Jan 16, 2013 3:52 PM ET

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/01...its-nightlife/

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by north 42

Windsors' downtown is not as abad as Jacob has said, I live right DT and love it.its very busy on weekend nights and has lots of choices when it comes to dining and drinks, and we have Caesars if you prefer to gamble. A five minute drive through the tunnel and you are in downtown Detroit, which is actually full of great things to do, and the least sketchy area in the city.

I absolutely agree with the food part, there are many excellent places to eat; just about any type of restaurant you want is down there. I recommend anyone new to the area try Prime Burger. Unfortunately, other than gamble, drink and eat, it does become quite boring, but is getting better.

In the winter, you can go skating, which is one of the biggest family attractors during the time, but that is only there for a few months and then that space becomes empty all summer. Eventually, the new indoor water park will open and I have a feeling that will be a catalyst for the area.

Downtown used to have a small(ish) movie theatre, but it closed down a few years ago and was converted into the new headquarters for the local news paper, "The Windsor Star".

Just across Riverside from downtown is possibly the nicest waterfront in the country. There is a river-front trail stretching from Walkerville to the ambassador bridge (almost 5 kilometres) with great landscaping, gorgeous gardens, several playgrounds, interesting modern art, a brand new stage, a large space for the festivals and the best view possible of Detroit's art-deco skyscrapers.

Across the river, which you can get to by driving or even a reasonable $4.00 bus ride is Downtown Detroit, which is a very interesting place, though i can't really tell you about because i haven't been in a while, except to ride the people mover (which is really cool on its own).

Sorry i did not include any positves in my original post, if i missed any, please let me know.

[north 42]

Looks like Chatham is finally getting a highrise in their historic downtown!

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2013/...-of-units-sold

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by north 42

Looks like Chatham is finally getting a highrise in their historic downtown!

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2013/...-of-units-sold

Good for Chatham. I spent the majority of my childhood growing up in that town, and moved with my family to London in 2000 as a 12 year old. Went back there last year and that City has not changed one bit. It's totally stuck in time.

Never really liked the City, and moving to London instantly became my hometown.