Portland Diamond Project (MLB) | Proposed

[PDX City-State]

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good

I think Portland and Seattle are pretty similar in character--a lot of the same types of subcultures, scenes, weirdness. Seattle I think has a bit more of an edge to it, and there is certainly a lot more money and influence. I love Portland, but it can get a little provincial down here. For how politically aware people perceive themselves as being, you'd think Portland would have a more international outlook. That aside, I love Portland. It's provincialism, great cafes, and bikable streets remind me of my time in Europe. Plus, I can't think of another US city with more good bakeries and cheese shops per capita.

[MarkDaMan]

I for one greatly enjoyed living next to PGE park. From the roof of my building I could see into the stadium. We watched the Mariners come play, concerts, women's Soccer finals, Beavers games, and other events. I never thought the neighborhood was overloaded by traffic or transit users, even when the stadium was completely sold out. Comparing the effects of PGE Park on downtown to that of a freeway cutting through town is a bit ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

Sorry for raining on the sports lovers parade, but does anybody else think that the days of public dollars for millionaire's stadiums are coming to an end? Portland is a very progressive city, and I can't imagine that there wouldn't be an uproar over squandering public dollars for a stadium. The studies that say that the dollars come back in the form of taxes have been shown to be suspect.

The State of Oregon has created a formula, similiar to the urban renewal districts, that have allowed Oregon to pledge $150M guaranteed, and maybe more, toward the stadium costs. I could see a dedicated hotel tax bringing in another $100M. That's a good start, it's hard to say what Portlanders will accept for funding until there is some serious discussions actually happening instead of the 'maybe we will come but we aren't ready to discuss stadium financing yet' we've been given by the MLB...

[Black Box]

Originally Posted by roner

That's odd considering Seattle spawned grunge

Maybe so, but all of those bands (in the words of Curt Cobian) stole the sound from a Portland band by the name of the Wipers. The Wipers cut records in the early to mid 80s that sounded much like grunge, long before the term grunge ever came along.

Anyways, I don't think Portland has any complex about Seattle at all, at least not that I've ever noticed. It's not something people even consider in my mind.

I was not referring to anything technical or who did what and where, first. Although I am aware of the Wipers and their contribution, someone from Seattle just happened to propel it into the mainstream. Portland, you do not need a baseball team, a football team or even the Trailblazers. There is so much more going on down there. I do not much care for our sports teams and one may be leaving and not many people in Seattle care if the Sonics stay or go. I guess I'm speaking from a non-sports fan point of view, but having a MLB or NFL team does not have the same significance as it once did. It does not mean that your city has arrived. Portland has already arrived and without all the professional sports fuss and the money it drains from more important issues.

[Leo]

Originally Posted by pdxman

Interesting...i'm willing to bet you're one of the few who would rather have a post office instead of a baseball stadium. Dead zone vs. entertainment zone, hmmm...

Let’s not needlessly overgeneralize.

I just said that I’d rather not have the stadium. That doesn’t mean I oppose entertainment zones. I enjoy the fact that parks, restaurants, bars, coffee shops etc. are right across the street. I’d love to have a movie theater across the street, too. I enjoy these types of businesses in my neighborhood, and they are relatively non-intrusive to those of my neighbors who do not enjoy them.

Giant stadiums are far from non-intrusive. The noise, traffic, and pollution issues they create are more similar to adding a Wal-mart than adding a restaurant.

You can make a perfectly reasonable case for wanting a stadium in downtown Portland. But if you’re wondering why we don’t have one, it may very well be because some people would actively and legitmately oppose building one in their neighborhood.

[PDX City-State]

I live near PGE Park. Game Days suck. They bring a lot of bridge and tunnelers into the city. That's good for the city, but for this reason I wouldn't recommend dropping a stadim in the middle of the Pearl--soon the Pearl would be full of wing joints and pizza parlors. If ever, the Blanchard Building is perfect. It's close to downtown, would spur a lot development if the Rose Garden model wasn't used, and wouldn't really change the character of an existing neighborhood.

[65MAX]

Just so everybody's clear, before you anti-tax zealots get your panties in a wad.....

The income taxes from the players and employees of the MLB team would pay for the $150 million bond (which has already been approved). This is NOT an additional income tax on top of what they would pay anyway, just the regular income tax. This is tax money that Oregon would never see if there was no team here at all, so there's NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the state's budget or anybody else's tax rates.

Regarding the PO site, I agree that high-rise, high-density development and an extension of the Park Blocks is the best use of that site. The stadium would be better at the PPS site, where there's already infrastructure to handle large events (and fewer neighbors to complain).

[Leo]

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan

I for one greatly enjoyed living next to PGE park. From the roof of my building I could see into the stadium. We watched the Mariners come play, concerts, women's Soccer finals, Beavers games, and other events. I never thought the neighborhood was overloaded by traffic or transit users, even when the stadium was completely sold out. Comparing the effects of PGE Park on downtown to that of a freeway cutting through town is a bit ridiculous.

The point I was trying to make isn’t whether anyone could possibly enjoy a MBL stadium in Portland. Obviously, some people would; that’s why this thread exists.

The point I was trying to make is that there are people do not like the idea of living next to a stadium at all. So when people talk about putting a giant stadium into places like the post office site, it is the type of change that is desireable to some and highly undesireable to others.

Most (not all) of the posts in this thread seemed to imply that besides the funding details, adding a stadium would be an unquestionable benefit for all citizens of Portland, which is simply not true.

[MarkDaMan]

Not every person in Portland will have an improved life because of the tram, and many people living in it's path find it highly undesirable, but it is good for the city as a whole. I'm glad the city didn't stop the project because of the strong objections of those living around it.

I think an MLB stadium would similiarily be good for the city as a whole, and actually, I do not support sticking it on the Post Office site as I think there are more appropriate places for it to rest and better uses for that plot of land. I just don't think that PGE park has an overall negative effect on the Goose Hollow district, especially one as negative as having the waterfront freeway back.

[PacificNW]

I lived in Portland Towers also. It had a great roof view of PGE Park. I still think that it could be expanded for MLB and the Goose Hollow residents need to get over it...many probably moved to the area knowing there was a stadium in the area.

[MarkDaMan]

^if it weren't for the ugly MAC...

[Leo]

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan

Not every person in Portland will have an improved life because of the tram, and many people living in it's path find it highly undesirable, but it is good for the city as a whole. I'm glad the city didn't stop the project because of the strong objections of those living around it.

I’m not disagreeing with you there. Personally, I’m glad the tram is there, but I understand why it causes controversy. Many people do not admit that there would be controversy about a MLB stadium, and I’m saying that it’s actually very similar to the tram issue.

[Leo]

Originally Posted by PacificNW

I lived in Portland Towers also. It had a great roof view of PGE Park. I still think that it could be expanded for MLB and the Goose Hollow residents need to get over it...many probably moved to the area knowing there was a stadium in the area.

It’s easy to say that Goose Hollow residents should “get over” the existence of the park. That park’s been there for a long time, probably before most of the current residents moved there, and whoever moved in after the stadium should’ve done his homework ahead of time ... But a new MLB stadium built in an existing residential neighborhood would be the reverse: it should be the residents telling MLB fans to “get over it” and move to a town that already has MLB. This not a very fruitful direction for discussion.

[PacificNW]

This not a very fruitful direction for discussion.

↑ WTF! Excuse me? Are you someone important who gets to decide what should/should not be discussed? There has been serious discussions (evan a model was done) of the proposed expansion. It is still on the list of possible sites. I realize that if it came down to serious contention as a site that there would be a major uproar from many Goosehollow residents. I am saying, that if I lived in that area again, I for one, would support the concept of redoing PGE Park for the majors simply because of the stadium all ready being there and the Bus/MAX lines. But since I don't live in the area, it's none of my business. If no one wants to contribute to this discussion that, in itself, is very cool with me...I just don't like to be told, by someone not in the position, what I can, or cannot, direct a discussion. Tks for letting me vent.

[M'sFan]

Not to put too much of a damper on things, but I think if an MLB team is relocated, Charlotte definitely would be the front runner...it is in a larger market than Portland, and the extended market is huge. North Carolina, with it's 7 million peeps, is quite a drive from Atlanta or DC, and Charlotte is a wealthier, brasher city with more corporate connections, more potential committed owners, already has 3 pro franchises, and is growing at a very swift pace. Portland's best chance is in an expansion, and we can't expect expansion until current struggling clubs either fold, or find a way to compete. Baseball is a tough business, and they will be very cautious before allowing an already struggling club to move to a lower-midlevel market. (Furthermore a market that already contributes to an existing team that took 20 years to be moderately successful) And sorry, Vancouver BC...MLB won't even entertain sending another team North of the border.

[M'sFan]

In a somewhat related story: Jeff Weaver?!? 7-8 million bucks? Bill Bavasi's Return to Futility plan seems to be progressing quite nicely...

[pdxman]

The east coast doesn't need another sports team...if portland doesn't get a team then i think the next cities in line are las vegas or slc

[65MAX]

Las Vegas, no. They'd have to reconcile their opposition to betting on MLB games, or let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame. I don't see them doing either.

Salt Lake, no. The market's not big enough to support an MLB franchise.

[pdxman]

Ok, well if las vegas(big destination and booming population) or slc (bigger metro than portland and lots of money down there;very underrated market) can't have a team then portland shouldn't have one either in my view.

[SEA-TOWN]

Where on Earth did you get that SLC was bigger than Portland??? By the US census' CSA and MSA estimates Portland is clearly bigger in both.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by MtnClimber

Portland is the grungy alternative sister, Seattle is paris hilton with money, and Vancouver Bc is the snobby rich sister who looks good

Does this mean Seattle tries to look good but fails?

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Bad analogy, MC. However, given those three sisters, which one is more interesting?

Which one is the odd one out?

Portland, since it has no coast?

Seattle , since it's almost twice as big as the others?

Vancouver, since it's in another country?

I think we can call Vancouver the stepsister.