Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[Metro-One]

The intersections are key but the Haney Bypass also needs to be 4 lanes.

[weekend]

Adding two more traffic lights (and I expect right-turn red light restrictions) to the Haney-Bypass will just turn this area into another "Langley Bypass" with stop and go gridlock. This should be designed as limited on/off bypass without any added traffic lights.

[SpongeG]

something needs to be done for the north shore, it is getting really bad and can only get worse.

40% of North Vancouver businesses considering leaving: Survey

Brent Richter / North Shore News
JANUARY 18, 2018 04:00 PM

North Vancouver’s business community is warning our daily transportation problems aren’t just a nuisance that make us late for dinner – they’re an existential threat to the local economy.

The North Vancouver Chamber of Commerce released a survey of 153 of its member businesses Wednesday, raising red flags from an employer’s point of view.

More than three-quarters of respondents said they have employees who commute to the North Shore for work. But the same percentage said it is getting harder to retain staff because they are getting fed up with the drive or transit ride in.

“How can we ask people to work for our company when it takes them two hours to commute here?” one of the respondents wrote.

Replacing them is even worse, with 84 per cent who reported transportation is a factor in difficulty hiring new employees.

“We used to be able to attract from Vancouver and Burnaby, but no longer. Nobody wants to deal with the bridges,” another wrote.

Goods movement is also an issue for 54 per cent of respondents. One business owner said couriers have come to refer to North Van as the “seventh circle of hell.”

Although 77 per cent of business owners said it was either unlikely or very unlikely that they’d consider closing because of transportation challenges, 40 per cent said they would consider relocating outside of North Vancouver.

...

http://www.nsnews.com/news/40-of-nor...vey-1.23148874

[Metro-One]

It is almost as if a third crossing is needed... along with a rapid transit line. (Heck, with a little foresight both could be built within the same project...)

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is almost as if a third crossing is needed... along with a rapid transit line. (Heck, with a little foresight both could be built within the same project...)

a 3rd crossing will help but it won't remove the root of the problem. Plus it'll be super expensive as hell due to geographical limitations

Hwy 1 needs to be upgraded, especially many of the on and off ramps which need massive overhaul due to their close proximity to each other and lack of safe merging distance. North Van in particular has their road network like a maze, with terrible signage or complete lack thereof, making it confusing to navigate for people unfamiliar.

[Metro-One]

The North Shore complains about their traffic and connectivity problems, but I can guarantee no one on the North Shore will want the solution to be near their particular neighbourood.

Honestly the most logical solution beyond the one that will never happen (expanded Lions Gate or new crossing between the 1st and 2nd narrows) is to build a new crossing east of the Iron Workers landing either north of Burnaby Mountain or near Belcara.

I feel if we were in Europe or Asia such a crossing would already exist, but of course that would never happen due to local protest.

[Sheba]

I was looking at google maps earlier and one of the problems I see (other than the inevitable nimbys) is where to put a third crossing - the two crossings are already at the narrowest parts. I wondered about Belcarra as well.

At least with crossings from Richmond to Vancouver or Surrey, it's a fairly narrow span so it shouldn't be that horribly expensive to do. Then again look at what's happening with the Pattullo Bridge and Massey Tunnel / Bridge...

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is almost as if a third crossing is needed... along with a rapid transit line. (Heck, with a little foresight both could be built within the same project...)

Its almost as if this has been studied before....several times.... over several years (decades actually) by independent people who have all come to that same conclusion. But sadly nothing changes.

I hear North Van is thinking of partnering with the City of Vancouver and a company in California to start a canoe share program that will help with the crossings between the 2 municipalities and is sure to solve all problems. The city of Vancouver has a "study" ready to proclaim the program a roaring success stating canoe crossings have increased 4000% since the program began.

Burnaby refused to participate as even that was too much, too soon for them.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

a 3rd crossing will help but it won't remove the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is 9 lanes total from the north shore to anywhere else in the metro. A third crossing would absolutely solve the problem for generations.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The North Shore complains about their traffic and connectivity problems, but I can guarantee no one on the North Shore will want the solution to be near their particular neighbourood.

Most of the shoreline is industrial. The positive benefits of being near a route across the inlet would outweigh the negatives.

Always thought Pemberton Ave to Main Street tunnel would make a natural, low controversy connection. Pemberton could easily be six lanes, could allow traffic to filter out at both 1st and Marine, and wouldn't affect Norgate residential. If Skytrain is included, would make a natural link to a future Hastings line.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

The root of the problem is 9 lanes total from the north shore to anywhere else in the metro. A third crossing would absolutely solve the problem for generations.



Most of the shoreline is industrial. The positive benefits of being near a route across the inlet would outweigh the negatives.

Always thought Pemberton Ave to Main Street tunnel would make a natural, low controversy connection. Pemberton could easily be six lanes, could allow traffic to filter out at both 1st and Marine, and wouldn't affect Norgate residential. If Skytrain is included, would make a natural link to a future Hastings line.

Very good idea, IMO

[Dengler Avenue]

Hmm, I know no one’s gonna like this idea, but can we change one of the lanes in each direction on Second Narrow’s to a bus lane, at least during rush hour? Then we do the same thing with the HOV lane from Burnaby to 216th Street.
On top of that, we shall have an express that runs on Highway 1 from Horseshoe Bay to Aldergrove (so an extended version of 555).

[SpongeG]

i wonder how helpful something like that would help

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Hmm, I know no one’s gonna like this idea, but can we change one of the lanes in each direction on Second Narrow’s to a bus lane, at least during rush hour? Then we do the same thing with the HOV lane from Burnaby to 216th Street.
On top of that, we shall have an express that runs on Highway 1 from Horseshoe Bay to Aldergrove (so an extended version of 555).

No one would like that idea because it would make things worse. The approach to the bridge is the bottleneck, not the bridge itself, and it's bad because of contractors and longshoremen going home to Surrey/Langley/Abbotsford etc. They will never take a two hour bus ride home.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Pinion

No one would like that idea because it would make things worse. The approach to the bridge is the bottleneck, not the bridge itself, and it's bad because of contractors and longshoremen going home to Surrey/Langley/Abbotsford etc. They will never take a two hour bus ride home.

If the lanes are dedicated to buses though, shouldn't the commute be shorter?
Like, it should only be 1 hour 15 minutes (one-way) max?

I do agree that some interchanges should just be eliminated for good. Minimum distance between 2 adjoining interchange should be at least 1 km.

Ps: You guys have probably discussed this before, but is the current bridge expandable in any way?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i wonder how helpful something like that would help

I suggested gondolas for Surrey as their way of doing something different and being unique. It seems the only place they're likely to be used is where there's difficult terrain - aka Burnaby Mountain. Personally I'd love to see them elsewhere in the region too but it's pretty unlikely...

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

If the lanes are dedicated to buses though, shouldn't the commute be shorter?
Like, it should only be 1 hour 15 minutes (one-way) max?

I do agree that some interchanges should just be eliminated for good. Minimum distance between 2 adjoining interchange should be at least 1 km.

Ps: You guys have probably discussed this before, but is the current bridge expandable in any way?

Which lanes? The one lane Keith road? The one lane 3rd st? The one lane Low Level? There are no lanes to spare.

The bridge cannot be expanded and is reaching end of life. They just expanded the sidewalk, so the three people who bike to work outside of summer can have a nicer ride.

I never said interchanges should be eliminated. They definitely need to be better, though, and a half-assed improvement project is underway right now. It won't fix the worst on-ramp (Dollarton to Ironworkers), just make it slightly longer.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Which lanes? The one lane Keith road? The one lane 3rd st? The one lane Low Level? There are no lanes to spare.

The bridge cannot be expanded and is reaching end of life. They just expanded the sidewalk, so the three people who bike to work outside of summer can have a nicer ride.

I never said interchanges should be eliminated. They definitely need to be better, though, and a half-assed improvement project is underway right now. It won't fix the worst on-ramp (Dollarton to Ironworkers), just make it slightly longer.

Which lanes? The HOV on Highway 1 in Burnaby...
Man I know you're very frustrated with the traffic jam in North Vancouver. I am too, whenever I see traffic backed up all the way from the bridge to Lonsdale Avenue (which is absolutely ridiculous) during PM rush but do you really need to misread my comments...

If the bridge is near the end of its lifespan anyway, it should just get replaced. This may be the time to make things right...? I hope the environmentalists will let that pass at the very least. I used to be an environmentalist too, but now I think that environmentalism shouldn't justify crappy infrastructure, that there's gotta be a balance/compromise between the two.

Oh by the way, I used to live in Richmond if you care to know. I remember the time when my teacher would check the radio for traffic on the bridge after we left the mathematical lectures for high school students at Capilano U.

[Pinion]

I didn't misread your comment. The topic was Ironworkers congestion. The only time Burnaby comes into play with that is if there's a crash near Willingdon.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Pinion

The bridge cannot be expanded and is reaching end of life.

I have no idea if it is reaching end of life (seems like it should significantly outlast Port Mann, which was built at similar time, but had severe settling issues), but the bridge is expandable to 4+4 plus shoulder/bike lane. The Cassiar tunnel was designed to accommodate the future bridge widening.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Honestly the most logical solution is to build a new crossing east of the Iron Workers landing either north of Burnaby Mountain or near Belcara.

This can just as well be classified as "never going to happen". The entire waterfront is either park land or single family homes worth between 2 and 10 million. This is also beside the fact the Mt. Seymour Parkway between Parkgate and Dollarton Hwy is only 2 lanes and the approach to Dollarton Hwy is so steep the buses can't even use it.

Residents would have an absolute stink over the aesthetics of having a bridge, and a tunnel is not really possible with the arm being up to 200m deep.

Originally Posted by Zassk

I have no idea if it is reaching end of life (seems like it should significantly outlast Port Mann, which was built at similar time, but had severe settling issues), but the bridge is expandable to 4+4 plus shoulder/bike lane. The Cassiar tunnel was designed to accommodate the future bridge widening.

Can the Cassiar be expand to 4+4? Even if it stays 3+3 as it is now, thy should get rid of the "exit only" going NB. Make the McGill exit a short pull out like HWY1 WB to Capilano Road and have that third lane continue on. Have the Hastings NB on ramp removed and instead link it up to the McGill NB onramp. If indeed the bridge can be expanded to 4+4 then you could have 3 lanes going straight on to the bridge NB from Cassiar and 1 from Hastings and McGill, no merge required. SB the same could be done for the McGill/Hastings exit and have 3 lanes continue straight into the tunnel from the bridge and have the McGill on ramp removed instead having entry on to the highway from Hastings.