Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit - Page 441

GarryEllice · #**8801** Posted **Feb 4, 2018, 5:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcpish

BTW, here's an excellent book on the subject that I recommend. It was a great read, highly recommended:

Human Transit: How Clearer Thinking about Public Transit Can Enrich Our Communities and Our Lives
book
https://www.amazon.ca/Human-Transit-...40_&dpSrc=srch

I've been following Jarrett Walker's blog since long before he wrote that book. What he advocates for is high-frequency grids (as in Toronto, where I used to live, for example). If you were proposing a high-frequency grid for Winnipeg, I'd be all over it. But you're proposing something quite different: high-frequency radial routes fed by small neighbourhood circulators. I'm highly skeptical of the benefits of that. In fact, Walker has a blog post about why circulators don't work. A couple quotes:

Quote:

"People get on a bus because it takes them to (or at least toward) where they’re going. The shorter a route is, the fewer places it goes, and thus the fewer people will tend to get on it. Very short routes, say under 3 mi, tend to do very poorly"

Quote:

"It’s by combining markets, not by serving them separately, that successful transit corridors are made"

Combining markets -- that's exactly what routes like the 14 (Ellice/St. Mary's) and 18 (Corydon/North Main) currently do. And they do it in a very direct way. I really think that much of the network is better-designed than you give it credit for.

buzzg · #**8802** Posted **Feb 4, 2018, 5:25 AM**

^That's fair and makes sense, but I think the big issues right now (or soon to be more) are on SWBRT or Graham, where you have tons of busses clogged up there, and how several routes were routed to use the transitway, almost as a way to justify it existing as opposed to being smart. Route 66 was much better before it was re-routed to use RT – there's enough points where you can connect to get on one of the RT routes anyway.

joshlemer · #**8803** Posted **Feb 4, 2018, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

I've been following Jarrett Walker's blog

Not sure if this has been posted here but he was in town not too long ago and did a talk plus Q&A session. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx5-InmwqiI

cheswick · #**8804** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:12 PM**

More issues with Peggo over the weekend. Looks like for some people the autoreload feature just keep charging their card until the card maxed out. Someone had $8000 charged on their card. Kicker is, when he tried using the bus the peggo card didn't work.

rrskylar · #**8805** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheswick

More issues with Peggo over the weekend. Looks like for some people the autoreload feature just keep charging their card until the card maxed out. Someone had $8000 charged on their card. Kicker is, when he tried using the bus the peggo card didn't work.

Is there anything that this city gets right? Pretty much everything the city touches turns to shit...

esquire · #**8806** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 5:17 PM**

^ I chalk it up to our tendency to ignore conventional practice in the rest of the world in favour of a cheaper "Made in Manitoba" solution which inevitably ends up being penny wise but pound foolish. For other recent examples look at the Winnipeg Police HQ, Investors Group Field, the SW BRT, etc.

rrskylar · #**8807** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I chalk it up to our tendency to ignore conventional practice in the rest of the world in favour of a cheaper "Made in Manitoba" solution which inevitably ends up being penny wise but pound foolish. For other recent examples look at the Winnipeg Police HQ, Investors Group Field, the SW BRT, etc.

While other cities were already dumping Peggo as their transit fare card system provider the great minds in Winnipeg studied it for three years and came to the conclusion they could still make it work, how's that working out now?

Hate to be continually negative and cynical but does the city ever give anything but one clusterfuck after another?

cheswick · #**8808** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 7:16 PM**

Meanwhile in Montreal:
https://globalnews.ca/news/4013654/m...-open-in-2021/

3 years to build a light rail system when it takes us how many to get a leg of rapid transit done?

WildCake · #**8809** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheswick

Meanwhile in Montreal:
https://globalnews.ca/news/4013654/m...-open-in-2021/

3 years to build a light rail system when it takes us how many to get a leg of rapid transit done?

4 years to pave a 7.6km road in a field, with a couple of over/under passes and one underpass rehab

Montreal is 67km of LRT in 3 years, while Winnipeg's full BRT system will be ~10km, for about 8 years of construction.

Oh, almost forgot. There is a pedestrian overpass at IGF station, if that counts for anything.

esquire · #**8810** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 8:02 PM**

^ You have to admit it's a pretty sweet pedestrian overpass. Worth waiting years for.

Andy6 · #**8811** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

4 years to pave a 7.6km road in a field, with a couple of over/under passes and one underpass rehab

Montreal is 67km of LRT in 3 years, while Winnipeg's full BRT system will be ~10km, for about 8 years of construction.

Oh, almost forgot. There is a pedestrian overpass at IGF station, if that counts for anything.

Montreal is doing 67 km in 3 years? That sounds extremely unlikely. 3 years from when? The timelines for Winnipeg sound similar to what we have in Toronto as well. That’s reality.

Roger Strong · #**8812** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 9:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

Montreal is 67km of LRT in 3 years, while Winnipeg's full BRT system will be ~10km, for about 8 years of construction.

Does that 67km include the subway lines built over the last 55 years?

GreaterMontréal · #**8813** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 9:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

Does that 67km include the subway lines built over the last 55 years?

no, it's an additional 67 km. fully Grade-Separated Metro. about 135km total with the Montréal Metro

esquire · #**8814** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 9:49 PM**

I guess Montreal hasn't yet come to appreciate the benefits of an excruciatingly slow Made in Manitoba approach to rapid transit.

GreaterMontréal · #**8815** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 9:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I guess Montreal hasn't yet come to appreciate the benefits of an excruciatingly slow Made in Manitoba approach to rapid transit.

both Quebec City and Winnipeg have a transit problem. Quebec City is a city of suburbs. People living on the South Shore need a 3rd link into Quebec City lol tramway not the best idea.

WildCake · #**8816** Posted **Feb 9, 2018, 3:22 PM**

Free Press has an article along the same vine of recent conversation on this forum regarding transit frequency (less than 15 mins wait) and convenience (bus stop within 500m of the residence)

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...473437303.html

Article talks about a study done by the IISD and links to a cool map from their website

https://iisd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Vi...ea02540dbe4fde

No surprises on the map, with Pembina, Main, Henderson, and Portage corridors being best served, along with downtown and other core neighbourhoods.

esquire · #**8817** Posted **Feb 9, 2018, 3:57 PM**

^ That is an awesome and very useful map.

It's interesting how you have some outlying suburban areas with very good transit service (the ones strung along the 11, 18 and other major trunk routes) while you have some inner city areas with poor service. I used to live in one of those pockets with poor service (Riverview, near the health centre) and even though I was practically living in the shadow of downtown towers, transit service was really not all that convenient unless you were able to time your travel to line up with the infrequent 95 feeder bus. Otherwise, it was a long hike to Osborne.

dmacc · #**8818** Posted **Feb 9, 2018, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

https://iisd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Vi...ea02540dbe4fde

No surprises on the map, with Pembina, Main, Henderson, and Portage corridors being best served, along with downtown and other core neighbourhoods.

Shouldn't we want that? everything within the ring road to be best serviced because everything is within shorter distances of each other and everything outside the ring road would be less well serviced outside of the main arteries?

bomberjet · #**8819** Posted **Feb 9, 2018, 6:08 PM**

We're comparing Winnipeg and Montreal. There is no comparison.

I worked a bit on the Montreal project and its taken much longer than 3 years. Also $6.3 billion. Anyways I do agree shit in Winnipeg is sometimes ridiculous.

Winnipeg wouldn't even know what to do with $6.3 billion. Probably dreamscape or something like that.

rrskylar · #**8820** Posted **Feb 9, 2018, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

We're comparing Winnipeg and Montreal. There is no comparison.

I worked a bit on the Montreal project and its taken much longer than 3 years. Also $6.3 billion. Anyways I do agree shit in Winnipeg is sometimes ridiculous.

Winnipeg wouldn't even know what to do with $6.3 billion. Probably dreamscape or something like that.

And Bombardier couldn't even get the contract for the trains for the line!