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  #21  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 4:25 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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When do you get to the 90% white counties beyond Toronto? To the east, Kawartha Lakes and Northumberland (Port Hope, Cobourg, Lindsay etc.) counties are the first 90%+ white counties. To the north, Simcoe (which is huge and includes some GTA exurbs south of Barrie and cottage country to the north) just falls short at 88%. Beyond Hamilton, Niagara is still very white, again at 88%. Going west along the 401, you have to pass the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge and into Perth County (Stratford) which is 95% white. Dufferin County to the northwest (Orangeville) falls just short of 90%.
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  #22  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 4:43 AM
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In Canada, probably the least densely populated areas (which have high aboriginal populations) and close to the most dense areas (which have high visible minority populations, though perhaps not the absolute most dense, since ethnic suburbs/towns like Richmond, Brampton, Surrey, and Markham are more non-white than the densest center cities they surround) are the most non-white.

Some of the Western Canadian areas (perhaps if viewed by counties?) probably go from less than 90% white (because they are near a big city with visible minorities) to less than 90% (because of high aboriginal population) within a short span of distance, whereas further east places with lots of visible minorities drop off into high % white areas very quickly.
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  #23  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 5:07 AM
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Toronto's diversity continues well into the new sprawl . You don't really get to predominantly white suburbs until Whitby in the east, Aurora in the north and Oakville in the west.

Of course there are some older, more established areas that are still very white. In general, the wealthy neo-Tudor housing neighborhoods north of St. Clair are mostly WASP and/or Jewish, while wealthy Asian immigrants bypass this area and prefer newer housing.

Last edited by Docere; Feb 13, 2018 at 6:36 AM.
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 5:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
You don't really get to predominantly white suburbs until Whitby in the east, Aurora in the north and Oakville in the west.
Looking at it that way, it seems like Toronto's non-white suburbs drop off into white suburbs roughly similar distances away from the city itself in the three main directions -- east, west and north (though there's different groups of non-whites going each way). It's not like, say Chicago's suburbs where non-white suburbs and white suburbs go off in different directions.
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 5:33 AM
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For Boston, it's more accurate to say "outside of 128" it gets really white really quickly. Cambridge, Somerville, Quincy etc. are quite diverse. Rural Mass may be more diverse than the Boston outer suburbs - lots of colleges and universities in the Pioneer Valley.
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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 2:04 PM
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The closest 90% white county (or probably even 75%) to Miami is about 500 miles away...
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 2:08 PM
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^ Same for most of the South and West.
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
^ Same for most of the South and West.
Though that gets back to the discussion of "diversity". A 90% white county in Mass that has tons of Portuguese, Italians and Irish is arguably more diverse than a 100% nonwhite border county that is basically all Mexican.
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  #29  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 3:08 PM
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Though that gets back to the discussion of "diversity". A 90% white county in Mass that has tons of Portuguese, Italians and Irish is arguably more diverse than a 100% nonwhite border county that is basically all Mexican.

Right. My comment was more to just say that Miami is certainly not some outlier, but rather is similar to the rest of the South (and West) as far as non-white %s go. But your point is indirectly what I was saying as well.

For instance, Miami... rough numbers... 80% white (70% Hispanic white, 10% non-Hispanic white), 20% (18% non-Hispanic black, 2% Hispanic black).

Having lots of people of different Caribbean, Central, and South American ancestry is no more diverse than having lots of people of Northern, Eastern, and Southern European ancestry.
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  #30  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Right. My comment was more to just say that Miami is certainly not some outlier, but rather is similar to the rest of the South (and West) as far as non-white %s go. But your point is indirectly what I was saying as well.

For instance, Miami... rough numbers... 80% white (70% Hispanic white, 10% non-Hispanic white), 20% (18% non-Hispanic black, 2% Hispanic black).

Having lots of people of different Caribbean, Central, and South American ancestry is no more diverse than having lots of people of Northern, Eastern, and Southern European ancestry.
I'd argue the latter has been pretty watered down and assimilated in recent generations so while on paper, the various different ethnicities seem diverse, it's really not. But totally agree, simply having visible minorities is not diversity. An area that has significant white, black and Hispanic population is not diverse.
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 7:13 PM
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Right. My comment was more to just say that Miami is certainly not some outlier, but rather is similar to the rest of the South (and West) as far as non-white %s go. But your point is indirectly what I was saying as well.

For instance, Miami... rough numbers... 80% white (70% Hispanic white, 10% non-Hispanic white), 20% (18% non-Hispanic black, 2% Hispanic black).

Having lots of people of different Caribbean, Central, and South American ancestry is no more diverse than having lots of people of Northern, Eastern, and Southern European ancestry.
Generally true, but there is a big difference between "ancestry" that is 5 or 6 generations ago like most northern European Americans and "ancestry" that is 5 years ago like south florida's various hispanics. There isn't much diversity between someone who has some nordic blood from 100+ years ago and someone who has English blood from 200+ years ago (at this point they are both simply generic American) as opposed to someone who came from Colombia last year and someone who came from Cuba or Brazil or Argentina the year before and still retain their various cultures. New York circa 1910 with huge "white" populations of Irish and Italian and Germans and eastern European Jews was very diverse despite being heavily "white".
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 7:28 PM
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South Florida's most diverse county is suburban Broward County (1.86 million):
White: 39.2%
Hispanic: 27.6%
Black: 27.2%

Overall Miami MSA ~6 million (Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach):
Hispanic: 43.4%
White: 32.3%
Black: 20.3%
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I'd argue the latter has been pretty watered down and assimilated in recent generations so while on paper, the various different ethnicities seem diverse, it's really not. But totally agree, simply having visible minorities is not diversity. An area that has significant white, black and Hispanic population is not diverse.
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Generally true, but there is a big difference between "ancestry" that is 5 or 6 generations ago like most northern European Americans and "ancestry" that is 5 years ago like south florida's various hispanics. There isn't much diversity between someone who has some nordic blood from 100+ years ago and someone who has English blood from 200+ years ago (at this point they are both simply generic American) as opposed to someone who came from Colombia last year and someone who came from Cuba or Brazil or Argentina the year before and still retain their various cultures. New York circa 1910 with huge "white" populations of Irish and Italian and Germans and eastern European Jews was very diverse despite being heavily "white".
Sure, I agree with what you guys are saying. I totally get that there are usually significant generational differences in the ethnic/nationality ancestry of Americans in say Pittsburgh vs. those in Miami.

I just think we also often generalize "white" and "Hispanic" to points where they start to get really muddled and almost meaningless as labels to differentiate in terms of displaying diversity. I mean, white Americans of Norweigan and Greek and Irish and Ukrainian and Italian and Polish ancestry all somehow magically become the same... white... once they've lived in the US for a couple generations. Yet, white Americans of Mexican and Cuban and Argentine and Colombian ancestry all stay Hispanic somehow, even after multiple generations. Just because they are from a New World country that was primarily colonized by Spanish and Portuguese?
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  #34  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 8:35 PM
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Hispanic is a very vague ethnic group (A Mexican has little in common with a Chilean) and "white" has become synonymous with "Anglo" which is incorrect because not all white Americans are of Anglo-Saxon origin. Polish, Italian and Greeks are all lumped in this category. Asian-Americans includes everyone from Iran, India to China. It's all bullshit.
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  #35  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 8:36 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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In Montreal, "anglo" often means Jewish or Italian or Greek.
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  #36  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 9:19 PM
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In Montreal, "anglo" often means Jewish or Italian or Greek.
That's interesting considering the term, 'Anglo' originates back to Angeln, Germany.
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  #37  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Hispanic is a very vague ethnic group (A Mexican has little in common with a Chilean) and "white" has become synonymous with "Anglo" which is incorrect because not all white Americans are of Anglo-Saxon origin. Polish, Italian and Greeks are all lumped in this category. Asian-Americans includes everyone from Iran, India to China. It's all bullshit.
All true. And there are many hispanic North Americans that are very much white skinned and blue eyed.
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  #38  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Yet, white Americans of Mexican and Cuban and Argentine and Colombian ancestry all stay Hispanic somehow, even after multiple generations.
They don't.



https://www.npr.org/2017/12/20/57199...en-study-finds

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In Montreal, "anglo" often means Jewish or Italian or Greek.
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
That's interesting considering the term, 'Anglo' originates back to Angeln, Germany.
In Montreal's social milieu, "Anglo" is shorthand for Anglophone, or native English speaker and person who consumes English-language media and culture, not Anglo-Saxon ancestry or anything of the sort.

Anglophone, English-oriented, contrasts with Francophone, or French-oriented -- it's all linguistic and cultural, nothing about blood or race.

A black Canadian who only spoke English and not French would be considered an Anglo, in Montreal.

Montrealers also for the most part don't consider French-Canadian or Francophones to be defined by ancestry or blood (at least not in contemporary times, maybe back in the day).

Someone can be blond and blue-eyed and of "old stock" French-Canadian ancestors, but if they don't speak one lick of French, many Montrealers will consider the Haitian immigrant who does speak French to be more "French-Canadian" or Francophone than them.
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  #39  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Hispanic is a very vague ethnic group (A Mexican has little in common with a Chilean) and "white" has become synonymous with "Anglo" which is incorrect because not all white Americans are of Anglo-Saxon origin. Polish, Italian and Greeks are all lumped in this category. Asian-Americans includes everyone from Iran, India to China. It's all bullshit.
I don't know who started the "Anglo = white" business (must have been back in the day), but I've heard that back in the day, in places like New Mexico, Anglo was just used to describe English speaking American settlers (as opposed to Spanish settlers).

Somehow language became conflated with race somewhere along the line.
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  #40  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2018, 1:48 AM
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In Mass and the rest of SE New England, "Anglo" specifically means WASP. Emphasis on the "P". Irish (and the Welsh who immigrated) aren't part of that definition.
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