The Annex Residence (265 Laurier St E) | 9 storeys | Completed

[JackBauer24]

I do agree there should be more on campus housing, but when the university in question is literally located downtown, where the cost of land is highest, it's not always possible to build more housing as the university gets larger.

But whether a student lives on or off campus, if they are the type of cause problems (be it noise, violence, property damage, etc...), they will get up to their shenanigans regardless of their address.

Originally Posted by Boxster

I don't live around the campus for the exact reasons I mentionned.

I am speaking for the majority of Sandy Hill residents.

Just keep the students on Campus as much as you can is what I am saying.

[OTSkyline]

^ Student residences are smaller than typical appartments and cost much more so I'm sure it's not a cost issue as I am sure the University would make money and profit from this...

A standard 2 bedroom downtown is around $1,200, I knew friends who stayed in a 2 bedroom at the Laurier St Residence and their place was small and they paid something like $1,600 per month.

[teej1984]

The thing about student parties is they are very dependant on timing... they almost always only happen at about 3-5 times per year... welcome week, homecoming, end of term, St. Patty's day, first warm weekend of the school year. Obviously there are some mixed in, but overall, that's my experience!

On top of this, a significant majority of students leave over the summer, returning Sandy Hill to the calm, quiet urban neighbourhood it is!

I agree with the above poster who said this may actually be good for the neighbourhood, using the new residence on Laurier as an example and the likely small size of the units. I mean, how are you going to cram 50+ students in a studio or small one bedroom apartment. I actually think this will be a good proposal for reducing student parties in the neighbourhood!

[Boxster]

Students living at home are as bad except that its harder for them to congragate together.

Get your head out of the sand. When you put students together, they tend to act like fools.

Originally Posted by gjhall

I made no such assumption. Commuting students live "off-campus" too. They also are known to attend parties, have friends, drink alcohol, eat in restaurants, etc.

So only students living away from home are uncivilized? Is that your leap?

Thank goodness we have a Charter of Human Rights to defend people from this type of bigoted generalization and from zoning for type of residents.

[JackBauer24]

The rent for a two bedroom downtown is certainly not $1200, unless it's in Vanier (even then, that's pretty low). In fact you'd struggle to find a 1 bedroom downtown at that rate. The going rate for 2-bedroom apartments downtown is around $1700-2000 depending on the exact location and quality of building.

For U of O to acquire land and build student housing is not that dissimilar to a builder buying land downtown and building a condo. The big issue is that unless they currently own the land they wish to develop, the acquisition of the land would be pretty difficult and expensive since they would be competing against builders/developers going after the same desirable piece of land.

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

^ Student residences are smaller than typical appartments and cost much more so I'm sure it's not a cost issue as I am sure the University would make money and profit from this...

A standard 2 bedroom downtown is around $1,200, I knew friends who stayed in a 2 bedroom at the Laurier St Residence and their place was small and they paid something like $1,600 per month.

[JackBauer24]

You put a bunch of rabid sports fans together and mix in a few beers and the results would be similar. Same story if you took a bunch of concert-goers at Bluesfest. Parties, noise, etc... are not acts exclusive to students.

In my university/college experience, the biggest parties that caused the biggest disturbances were off campus. It could be what a previous poster mentioned, that the dorm-style rooms are just too small to host large parties, or if it's the fear that they'll be caught/noticed by on campus security.

Originally Posted by Boxster

Students living at home are as bad except that its harder for them to congragate together.

Get your head out of the sand. When you put students together, they tend to act like fools.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

You put a bunch of rabid sports fans together and mix in a few beers and the results would be similar. Same story if you took a bunch of concert-goers at Bluesfest. Parties, noise, etc... are not acts exclusive to students.

In my university/college experience, the biggest parties that caused the biggest disturbances were off campus. It could be what a previous poster mentioned, that the dorm-style rooms are just too small to host large parties, or if it's the fear that they'll be caught/noticed by on campus security.

Probably both. And this proposal will have small units and security/management 24/7. So....

Boxster, just wait until you see what a bunch of people in their mid 20s with salaries + giant terraces and rooftop deck in their new condos can do over at Le Viu. I speak from experience... PARTY

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Boxster

Students living at home are as bad except that its harder for them to congragate together.

Get your head out of the sand. When you put students together, they tend to act like fools.

Maybe I'm old, but it seems to me that students these days are actually much more polite and serious than we were. I have students two doors down and I swear that they are better neighbours than we are. Their place is always impeccable, they have great barbecues and they almost never make noise after 11.

I don't think the solution to anti-social behaviour by students is to encase them in a campus bubble. More mixing in the neighbourhood is probably a good thing, as it forces students to live a little more like adults and see the consequences of their behaviour.

The problem with this conversation is that its full of generalizations. What we think we "know" about students is going to be almost entirely based on personal experience. I'm not sure that's a good basis for making policy.

[S-Man]

Maybe I'm old, but it seems to me that students these days are actually much more polite and serious than we were. I have students two doors down and I swear that they are better neighbours than we are. Their place is always impeccable, they have great barbecues and they almost never make noise after 11.

I lived next door to two students for a year, and they were great. They grew vegetables and bought lawn tools to better upkeep the (old) rental property.

"No use in making it look worse than it is," said the guy.

Any barbecue wrapped up before 11.

Certainly, they were a breath of fresh air. As far as I can tell, 2 more students moved in afterwards (we've met, but I'm not sure of their education status). They are young, and quiet.

There's some broad-brush painting happening on here, and in Sandy Hill.

[Boxster]

Well said Phil - Agreed!

Originally Posted by phil235

Maybe I'm old, but it seems to me that students these days are actually much more polite and serious than we were. I have students two doors down and I swear that they are better neighbours than we are. Their place is always impeccable, they have great barbecues and they almost never make noise after 11.

I don't think the solution to anti-social behaviour by students is to encase them in a campus bubble. More mixing in the neighbourhood is probably a good thing, as it forces students to live a little more like adults and see the consequences of their behaviour.

The problem with this conversation is that its full of generalizations. What we think we "know" about students is going to be almost entirely based on personal experience. I'm not sure that's a good basis for making policy.

[c_speed3108]

Well I think the issue is that with a University the size of U of O you will have the majority of students live off campus. That's a given.

The question is whether it is better to house them in a larger facility like this that will have staff and standards or do it the traditional sandy hill way of half-baked single family house conversions with no onsite staff, no rules, no nothing.


There are some advantages to living on campus particularly for first year students, but it is not really a place most students want to stay after first year for some of the reasons mentioned here: price, food, etc..

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

There are some advantages to living on campus particularly for first year students, but it is not really a place most students want to stay after first year for some of the reasons mentioned here: price, food, etc..

In particular when that campus is downtown, rather than out in the burbs or a college town.

[OTSkyline]

[QUOTE=JackBauer24;6473212]The rent for a two bedroom downtown is certainly not $1200, unless it's in Vanier (even then, that's pretty low). In fact you'd struggle to find a 1 bedroom downtown at that rate. The going rate for 2-bedroom apartments downtown is around $1700-2000 depending on the exact location and quality of building. [QUOTE]

Are you insane? For $1700-2000, you'd be able to rent a brand new condo at Claridge Plaza, and 99.9% of students are living in older appartments with parquet flooring and older units in downtown (Somerset), King Edward or Sandy Hill... Look up anything on kijiji, ottawaliving, or rental companies like ViewIt or Paramount Apts, maybe you might have a more realistic idea of downtown rents.

[JackBauer24]

No, I'm not insane. But thank you for your concern.

If you go to Kijiji, or any of the other aforementioned websites, and look for 2-bedroom apartments in Ottawa you will find prices as low as $900. But a funny thing happens when you set the search criteria to downtown apartments within walking distance of Ottawa U, the avg. rent range suddenly changes closer to $1500-1800. And no, that's not for a brand new Claridge condo.

Does this look like a brand new condo?
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-real-estat...AdIdZ570471569

[QUOTE=OTSkyline;6473471][QUOTE=JackBauer24;6473212]The rent for a two bedroom downtown is certainly not $1200, unless it's in Vanier (even then, that's pretty low). In fact you'd struggle to find a 1 bedroom downtown at that rate. The going rate for 2-bedroom apartments downtown is around $1700-2000 depending on the exact location and quality of building.

Are you insane? For $1700-2000, you'd be able to rent a brand new condo at Claridge Plaza, and 99.9% of students are living in older appartments with parquet flooring and older units in downtown (Somerset), King Edward or Sandy Hill... Look up anything on kijiji, ottawaliving, or rental companies like ViewIt or Paramount Apts, maybe you might have a more realistic idea of downtown rents.

[J.OT13]

Had friends who lived in the student housing at La Cité. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like 1250$/month per person in two bedroom dorms (so the school pocketed 2500$ a month per apartment). The dorms included a tiny kitchenette with a stove top, but no stove and one bathroom. There wasn't even enough room for a couch! Plus, there was just about no flexibility in terms of moving out at the end of the year. You had to be out with all your stuff by the last day of school and I think you even had to leave during Christmas break.

Considering how much money educational institutions can make with residences, I don't understand why they don't build/operate/own more of them on campus. Even the idea of having someone else build and operate it on campus seems foolish.

Seems to me U of O has plenty of room left for new buildings; look at all the parking lots on the main campus, and I'm sure a few 40-50 year old buildings could eventually be redeveloped. And of course, they have the Lees campus, an excellent place for residences IMO.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Had friends who lived in the student housing at La Cité. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like 1250$/month per person in two bedroom dorms (so the school pocketed 2500$ a month per apartment). The dorms included a tiny kitchenette with a stove top, but no stove and one bathroom. There wasn't even enough room for a couch! Plus, there was just about no flexibility in terms of moving out at the end of the year. You had to be out with all your stuff by the last day of school and I think you even had to leave during Christmas break.

Considering how much money educational institutions can make with residences, I don't understand why they don't build/operate/own more of them on campus. Even the idea of having someone else build and operate it on campus seems foolish.

Seems to me U of O has plenty of room left for new buildings; look at all the parking lots on the main campus, and I'm sure a few 40-50 year old buildings could eventually be redeveloped. And of course, they have the Lees campus, an excellent place for residences IMO.

Cite seems to be gouging . Here are the room rates for uOttawa. I found the french version in a neat table and could not be bothered to look further for an English version. The first number is for 2012-2013, the second for 2013-2014.
Some residences alsohave 12 month rates for those that want to stick around. Note that furniture,cable, internet and telephone are included.

Nombre de lits 2,994 2,994
Droits de résidence

a) Septembre à avril (8 mois)
unité de 2 chambres 6,812 $ 7,050 $
chambre simple 5,384 $ 5,518 $
chambre double 4,622 $ 4,714 $

b) Septembre à août (12 mois)
Résidence Brooks *
appartement de 2 chambres 9,780 $ 9,960 $
appartement de 4 chambres. 8,196 $ 8,352 $
Résidence Hyman Soloway **
appartement de 2 chambres 10,308 $ 10,512 $
appartement de 3 chambres 9,948 $ 10,152 $
appartement de 4 chambres 9,612 $ 9,804 $
* Meublé, climatisé, câble et internet inclus.
** Meublé, climatisé, câble, téléphone et internet inclus.

I disagree that uOttawa
has plenty of space. It is an overcrowded campus, and they have needs that outstrip the space. But if any one has ideas to the contrary they really should contribute their ideas on the uOttawa campus plan web site.

They will build at Lees for sure. The faculty of Health Sciences wants a new building (tower) there. It has been made a university priority. A residence could follow that project ,in ten years time. They probably will rebuild or replace some inadequate buildings,--like the Jock Turcot Center and expand the library building. Some want to remove Brookes residence and build something else, because it takes up a lot of space for housing only 700 students. Many people want more Park and Open Spaces. Places where people can meet. The parking lots may disappear and become that. Parking Lot X at the entrance to the new SS Tower will probably go first.
A big complaint from current students is that they need more study space on campus. Current study areas are seriously over taxed. Science and Engineering Researchers say they need more lab space--and the demands go on.

PS--there is still an issue as to what the city and NCC will decide to do with the Mann-Nicholas Gateway Precinct ---build a new Sandy Hill Arena, sell it all to developers, or to the university, some combination of them all? How is the Lees TOD plan going to affect this precinct.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Considering how much money educational institutions can make with residences, I don't understand why they don't build/operate/own more of them on campus. Even the idea of having someone else build and operate it on campus seems foolish.

I checked the uOttawa budget outline for 2013-2014.

It projects revenues from housing rentals, ie student residences, to be $21,738,000 for 2994 beds.

Expenses for the same are projected to be $22,201,000.

No profit there---but is it unusual for bureaucrats in the public domain not to be able to produce a profit.

[c_speed3108]

Having spent 8 years of my life at the U of O, I can definitely say they don't have a lot of space to work with. The fact that they have bought up most of the other side of King Edward certainly helps, but even that's filling up rather quickly.

I know they would like to tear down the Leblanc residence and replace it with something newer and bigger and just make better use of space in that area.

There are no grants for residence construction. Generally the university takes out a loan and pays it off with residence fees from future years. There current idea now is to let the private sector basically do the same thing and make a profit. The university may lease some space or not depending.

The university has basically said all surface parking lots are development targets - and really there are only a few left on the core part of campus.

Lees is a bit weird. The trick is to find faculties that are not too integrated with other parts of the university as it is too far away for class changes. Something like Education would work.

A Residence _could_ work over there but it would either require considerable building of dining facilities or more of a Brooks style apartment residence appealing to old students or something.


Back in the 80's my dad met a very old man that said one day the university will be all of Sandy Hill. I that might be a bit much but I would not be surprised if it starts attempting buy some of the next block on the other side of Henderson. Even for Residence space.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Having spent 8 years of my life at the U of O, I can definitely say they don't have a lot of space to work with. The fact that they have bought up most of the other side of King Edward certainly helps, but even that's filling up rather quickly.

I know they would like to tear down the Leblanc residence and replace it with something newer and bigger and just make better use of space in that area.

There are no grants for residence construction. Generally the university takes out a loan and pays it off with residence fees from future years. There current idea now is to let the private sector basically do the same thing and make a profit. The university may lease some space or not depending.

The university has basically said all surface parking lots are development targets - and really there are only a few left on the core part of campus.

Lees is a bit weird. The trick is to find faculties that are not too integrated with other parts of the university as it is too far away for class changes. Something like Education would work.

A Residence _could_ work over there but it would either require considerable building of dining facilities or more of a Brooks style apartment residence appealing to old students or something.


Back in the 80's my dad met a very old man that said one day the university will be all of Sandy Hill. I that might be a bit much but I would not be surprised if it starts attempting buy some of the next block on the other side of Henderson. Even for Residence space.

LeBlanc is a target for replacement, but perhaps not for some time yet

I think it is pretty certain that The Faculty of Health Sciences will be the major tenant at Lees. That faculty includes nursing, physiotherapy, human kinetics, nutrition science, rehabilitation science and uOttawa is seeking provincial permission to add a School of Pharmacy to the mix. To train your friendly neighborhood pharmacist.

Here are some things consultant George Dark is quoted as saying about uOttawa's development:

---said George Dark of Urban Strategies, who is leading the project.

Dark said the next phase of uOttawa's development will see it look outside Sandy Hill to its land holdings in Old Ottawa East on Lees Avenue and in Alta Vista.

"I don't see the university growing into Sandy Hill the way it did in the past," Dark said.

-and what Dark said about the Lees TOD plans:

The University of Ottawa is particularly excited about the new plans for that district, which will help it expand into the old Algonquin College property it bought, nestled in a curve of the Rideau River. Expect buildings with many floors of apartments or condos, classrooms and labs and offices below, and student- and resident-friendly stores on the ground floors, the university’s planning consultant George Dark told the committee.

Apts and condos as well as academic stuff and stores Good stuff

[danishh]

I assume by Altavista they mean the med school facilities on Smyth next to the general hospital.