Edmonton Trolley's Should be scrapped - consultant

[newfangled]

Originally Posted by feepa

I hardly notice the trolley lines downtown or in Oliver where theres more to the skyline then just blue sky. Out on 107 ave and 156st where theres nothing taller then a 2 story house, or 3 story walkup, these lines are very noticeable and prominent.

Downtown and Oliver aren't too bad.

But as I discovered on the weekend, they're pretty ugly on 124st.

And I've always hated them running down 102ave by the RAM through Glenora.

And when you're all the way out by 97st or 156st they're just nasty.

I don't know whether to keep them either, but they're definitely an eyesore.

[fortroad]

Originally Posted by mersar

The biggest issue with the hybrids seems to be the newness of the technology, and in turn the cost. A number of people have mentioned over on CPTDB that the hybrids that ETS is testing right now are disliked by quite a few of the drivers for various reasons as well, ranging from how they handle to the noises they make.

Diesel electric seems new but the technology is the same as that used in Submarines during the second world war. I am not sure about busses but it would be simple if the diesel motor only made electricty, stored in batteries and used electric motors to propel the bus rather than the conventional hybrid using stored energy to "help" with propelling the car as the engine is coupled direct to the wheels.

[MalcolmTucker]

Can someone make a map that highlights the current trolley corridors?

Long linear routes would be good to keep the trolleys for. Perhaps even convert them into light streetcars like the Portland Streetcar.

[IKAN104]

If this is true then I'm glad to hear it. Yes there are pros and cons both ways but I will be very relieved when they are gone. It will be another important step in the cleaning up of this city.

How did you find out about this consultants report? Is it online? I don't see it mentioned on any of the media sites yet.

[CanadianCentaur]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Can someone make a map that highlights the current trolley corridors?

Long linear routes would be good to keep the trolleys for. Perhaps even convert them into light streetcars like the Portland Streetcar.

Edmonton has no shortage of long linear routes, of course.

There's seven routes currently using trolleys. Hence the different colours, as each colour represent a route. Black squares are ETS transit centres.

Note that one of the routes, Route 9 (navy blue), uses both trolleys and diesels. I think Route 9 only uses trolleys up to NAIT, but I can't quite remember, since I don't go to that part of Edmonton very often.



Route 9 is also kind of weird because some of the buses will only take you as far south as Rossdale. (if you see the 9 going southbound saying "Downtown" as its final destination - you'd better ask the driver just to be sure if you plan on going farther south than Rossdale!)

[SFUVancouver]

I'm disappointed to hear that Edmonton is likely to lose its trolleys.

The biggest advantage of trolleys in my mind is how neighbourly they are due to their exceptionally quiet operation and lack of point-source pollution. From experience diesel buses just don't hold up as well over time and make a far, far greater amount of noise during operation and idling.

The aesthetics of the overhead wires are clearly subjective. I think they add a great deal to a street and help separate major streets from minor, urban streets from suburban. Perhaps it stems from a childhood spent in Toronto and Vancouver but I've always felt that where the trolley wires end marks the transition to the suburbs.

Vancouver's new trolleys derail with so much less frequency that I cannot remember the last time now that I saw it or experienced it. The old trolleys did it all the time. Vancouver's new trolleys also use about 25% less electricity and are universally accessible for wheelchairs, scooters, seniors, etc. Our hydroelectric power makes them a zero emission system from start to finish.

I won't be surprised if Edmonton ends up scrapping the trolleys in favour of hybrid diesels but I am pretty sure their absence will be felt.

What a step back.

[IKAN104]

Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur

Edmonton has no shortage of long linear routes, of course.

There's seven routes currently using trolleys. Hence the different colours, as each colour represent a route. Black squares are ETS transit centres.

Note that one of the routes, Route 9 (navy blue), uses both trolleys and diesels. I think Route 9 only uses trolleys up to NAIT, but I can't quite remember, since I don't go to that part of Edmonton very often.

Correct. No trolley lines go past NAIT. This year the possibility of extending the trolley line all the way up to Northgate is planned for debate on council.

[Mikemike]

There's also an extention of the #2 (light blue) that still has wires but is never used, extending from the stadium loop to 50st. on 112Ave. There are never, ever trolleys there, although the bus route is a straight line and runs every 15 minutes, but oddly enough the support poles for the trolley wires have been stripped and sanded, and in many cases replaced in the last 2 years. It would be an odd thing to do if you plan on retiring the things. Maybe there is some city department that actually likes the things.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur

Edmonton has no shortage of long linear routes, of course.

There's seven routes currently using trolleys. Hence the different colours, as each colour represent a route. Black squares are ETS transit centres.

Note that one of the routes, Route 9 (navy blue), uses both trolleys and diesels. I think Route 9 only uses trolleys up to NAIT, but I can't quite remember, since I don't go to that part of Edmonton very often.



Route 9 is also kind of weird because some of the buses will only take you as far south as Rossdale. (if you see the 9 going southbound saying "Downtown" as its final destination - you'd better ask the driver just to be sure if you plan on going farther south than Rossdale!)

Current Trolley routes are:

3 Jasper Place to Cromwell via 118 Avenue

5 Westmount to Coliseum

7 Jasper Place to Parkallen via 107 Avenue

9 Downtown to NAIT (short-turns only - the main route Southgate to Northgate is diesel, though Downtown to Southgate could be by trolley)

120 Jasper Place to Stadium

133 Jasper Place to Belgravia via 107 Avenue (Peak Hours only)

135 Westmount to Downtown

The following extension could make the system more usable:
New wires 156 street, 87 ave to West Edmonton Mall, new wires on 50 Street to Clareview from 118 Avenue - with a reroute of route 1 and 2 - through service from WEM to Clareview could be implemented, and extension of 3 and or 7 to WEM
New wires on 97 street from 118 ave to Northgate - route 9 could be fully electrified, and route 134 could be electrified
New wires on 118 avenue from NAIT to Abbotsford - split Route 8 and run trolleys downtown - NAIT - Abbotsford

so I can dream

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by lightrail

Current Trolley routes are:

3 Jasper Place to Cromwell via 118 Avenue

5 Westmount to Coliseum

7 Jasper Place to Parkallen via 107 Avenue

9 Downtown to NAIT (short-turns only - the main route Southgate to Northgate is diesel, though Downtown to Southgate could be by trolley)

120 Jasper Place to Stadium

133 Jasper Place to Belgravia via 107 Avenue (Peak Hours only)

135 Westmount to Downtown

The following extension could make the system more usable:
New wires 156 street, 87 ave to West Edmonton Mall, new wires on 50 Street to Clareview from 118 Avenue - with a reroute of route 1 and 2 - through service from WEM to Clareview could be implemented, and extension of 3 and or 7 to WEM
New wires on 97 street from 118 ave to Northgate - route 9 could be fully electrified, and route 134 could be electrified
New wires on 118 avenue from NAIT to Abbotsford - split Route 8 and run trolleys downtown - NAIT - Abbotsford

so I can dream

It's abbotsfield not ford

118 Ave makes a lot of sense, although the need for the electrified downtown-nait section might decrease as LRT heads north.

118ave in the #8 is actually pretty ideal for trolly (or tram). Not turns at all, no need for messy wire intersections, just a loop at either end. It's also a busy enough route that the overhead cost is relatively small, with busses every 7.5 minutes at rush hour. When were the wires removed? The old bolt holes still exist in the bottom concrete of the Coliseum station, so it's not that long ago.

[240glt]

When were the wires removed?

It's only been a couple of weeks since they took them down. They're re-doing all the sidewalks and roads and were apparently going to put in some nicer guy wire poles, but I hope that they make a firm decision about the trolleys before they start replacing them

[lightrail]

Here's the link to the Edmonton Transit website on the trolley's

http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server...c+Hearings.htm

The trolley wires on 118 Avenue used to run to Capilano Drive and loop around - they were removed when Coliseum Transit Centre opened.

[Esturk]

Honestly, I'd rather have a couple sets of trolley wires on my street (partially hidden in the trees) then roaring diesel buses every 15 minutes or more. My upstairs neighbor didn't even notice that there were wires on 76ave. =P I do admit that there are areas, most notably intersections where the overhead is quite noticeable. But honestly, who cares? It's not like they're blocking your view of anything anyways. Most people I know don't even notice the wires.

Also the coal power plant is a null point. Whether or not we have a trolley system, that plant will still be there.

Just for the record
#3 is Jasper Place to Cromdale
#7 is Jasper Place to Belgravia
#133 is Jasper Place to Parkallen

[IKAN104]

Originally Posted by Esturk

But honestly, who cares? It's not like they're blocking your view of anything anyways.

Actually at 156 and 107 I seem to recall they actually block your view of the traffic lights. Or was that 156 and SPR? Probably both.

[feepa]

both^

[Markus41]

I have never seen a #9 in the form of a trolley bus. I've lived in the NAIT area for almost a year now and have never seen one; ever. I know there are lines that go down 106th St. but was never sure which route they carried.

[Esturk]

Originally Posted by IKAN104

Actually at 156 and 107 I seem to recall they actually block your view of the traffic lights. Or was that 156 and SPR? Probably both.

Right. I'm sure if that was a problem there, something would have been done about it already.

[IKAN104]

Not necessarily. Although they obviously don't block your view entirely but definitely partially. Even worse when the wind is blowing and the lights are swinging.

[rapid_business]

I'll join this one a little late:

I'm torn. I like the urbanity that they invoke, and I'd gladly trade this for a fixed rail street car like Feepa hinted... but in the meantime, I'm not too sure what the answer is here.

[MrOilers]

For a few years (and at my old home and job) I took the #5 bus to and from work.

Nothing irritated me more than when the bus derailed and the operator couldn't get it back on the wires at 9:30 PM in Boyle area and we'd all have to wait 15 minutes for the next bus to come. That happened more times than I care to remember, and I cursed the trolley system as my stalled bus became an even bigger magnet for the local drunks and junkies than usual.

I'm torn over the issue, too, though.