Greystone Village development [Main St] | up to 28m | up to 9f | U/C

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It looks like what was written in the article was a poor intrepretation of the report, which says:

Phase 1A– 155 residential units consisting of singles, towns and apartment dwellings; start in 2016.

Phase 1B – 28 residential units consisting of single, towns; start in 2018.

Phase 2 – 464 residential units consisting of towns, back to back towns and apartment dwellings along with approximately 3,395 square metres of retail space; start in 2021.

Phase 3 –120 residential units consisting of towns and apartment dwellings
and the partial demolition of the existing Deschâtelets building and rehabilitation of remaining into approximately 149 apartment dwellings/seniors housing; start in 2020.

Much better that's for sure.

[rocketphish]

Finance committee OKs $15.8M brownfield grant, special Alta Vista levy

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 6, 2016 | Last Updated: April 6, 2016 6:57 AM EDT

Companies asking for the city’s help to clean up contaminated sites slated for redevelopment should be required to provide affordable housing units in exchange, Mayor Jim Watson said Tuesday after the finance committee approved the largest ever brownfield grant application.

“It’s not a question of being punitive. We’re actually being very helpful to these companies who are cleaning up sites, but I think there’s a bit of a quid pro quo where we want the companies to recognize there are over 10,000 people on a wait list for affordable housing and every project should have some component of affordable housing within it,” the mayor said.

The committee approved $15.8 million in tax and fee breaks for the Regional Group, which wants to transform the former Oblates land at 175 Main St. along the Rideau River into a new mixed-use community called Greystone Village. The property has about 215,000 tonnes of contaminated soil that needs to be trucked to a dump over the next four years. Work has already started.

Developers can get breaks on property taxes and development charges for cleaning up toxic lands, up to 50 per cent of the remediation costs. Until now, the largest brownfield grant approved by the city was for a box-store development at 280-300 West Hunt Club Rd. Council signed off on about $4.6 million in tax and fee relief in 2012.

The Regional Group plans to build 916 residential units and retail space over four phases in its Main Street project. The major part of the development is scheduled to start in 2021 when 464 new units will be under construction, plus nearly 3,400 square metres of retail space. The Deschâtelets building, a former seminary built in 1885, will be renovated and could become a seniors residence. The full project could take up to 15 years to complete.

Contamination on the property dates back a century. Soil studies revealed offsite fill, plus coal and ash spread across the site from an onsite furnace. Because the contamination runs deep, the cleanup will include treatment of polluted groundwater.

Capital Coun. David Chernushenko said the Main Street development could see a “fairly significant” number of affordable housing units as the developer has been in talks with some housing organizations.

He added the grant program is a much-needed incentive for developers to spend money decontaminating sites they didn’t make a mess of, land which might otherwise remain vacant for decades.

“If we were not to offer these kinds of incentives, we’re likely not to see this very major investment, the jobs that come with it, the revitalization of a whole half of a significant main street,” he said.

Even at close to $16 million, the application pales in comparison to a subsidy available to the future developer of LeBreton Flats, which is heavily contaminated.

The Flats would be eligible for cleanup assistance from the city and the winning developer, RendezVous LeBreton or Devcore Canderel DLS Group, could ask the city for the same kind of breaks on taxes and development charges.

RendezVous has estimated the cost of soil remediation at $170 million.

Committee approves special Alta Vista levy

The committee also approved a special levy for property owners in Alta Vista ward to help pay for a unique rink and event space in the Canterbury community.

Alta Vista Coun. Jean Cloutier wants the city to install a refrigerated rink beside the Brian Kilrea Arena at the Canterbury Recreation Complex. The rink would have a roof but no walls, allowing the facility to act as a winter practice ice pad and an outdoor event space in the summer.

The early cost estimate is $5.8 million.

All property owners in the ward would be expected to pay an extra fee for 10 years. According to Cloutier, the average homeowner would pay $16.88 annually. The special levy would bring in $2.9 million from taxpayers over that 10-year period.

Another $2.5 million would be paid from revenue collected through development charges, and $400,000 would come from sponsorships and community partners, such as the Canterbury Community Association, which is offering to chip in $150,000.

Council votes on both items April 13.

mpearson@postmedia.com
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lta-vista-levy

[rocketphish]

So, Jimbo wants to change the rules now that the brownfields cleanup grant program is being used for what it was designed for and having to pay out some serious money?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

So, Jimbo wants to change the rules now that the brownfields cleanup grant program is being used for what it was designed for and having to pay out some serious money?

That's how it's done. Program exists a certain way until someone uses it, so change the rules. Position is bilingual, until it's not. And to quote Reevely, light rail route is perfect until it's not.

Politics of convenience.

[McC]

The worst part about this one, is that it doesn't actually "pay out" any money at all, it just foregoes revenues that wouldn't exist unless the property was re-developed, and therefore would likely never exist given the economics of cost of cleanup versus value of property. That said, I have no problem with using this incentive program to lever other worthy policy objectives (e.g., affordable housing, green design, there could be others, too) as long as doing so doesn't fundamentally undermine the economics. We do have to keep in mind that cleaning up contaminated sites and redeveloping them into something useful is a good and worthwhile policy objective in itself, one that delivers economic, environmental, and social benefits that justify at least some public "investment" (i.e. the foregone revenues).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by McC

The worst part about this one, is that it doesn't actually "pay out" any money at all, it just foregoes revenues that wouldn't exist unless the property was re-developed, and therefore would likely never exist given the economics of cost of cleanup versus value of property. That said, I have no problem with using this incentive program to lever other worthy policy objectives (e.g., affordable housing, green design, there could be others, too) as long as doing so doesn't fundamentally undermine the economics. We do have to keep in mind that cleaning up contaminated sites and redeveloping them into something useful is a good and worthwhile policy objective in itself, one that delivers economic, environmental, and social benefits that justify at least some public "investment" (i.e. the foregone revenues).

But provincial rules require that the municipality book the expenditure and make up the resources, no?

[McC]

sure, they book it as an expenditure, but unless the city actually has significant unfunded costs associated with the new development, then it's just an accounting device.

Yes, you are correct that if the city has new incremental costs associated with the development that exceed the reduced revenues from it, then they would have to make those up elsewhere. But I don't believe that's actually the case here, these sites are already serviced, and the developer builds the road and water infrastructure that ties the individual new buildings into those existing services, the residents will use existing city facilities, etc.

[rocketphish]

They've got a construction cam on site now.

[waterloowarrior]

Zoning for townhouses at north end
http://ottwatch.ca/devapps/D02-02-16-0057

[MattRichling]

Phase two is called Nothshore and is set to launch October 1st at 9am. This is a mix of 36 townhomes and 13 single detached. Pricing starts at high $500's and ranges from 1,470sqft to 1,560sqft. The single detached homes start at upper $800's and range from 1,988sqft to 3,117sqft.

No detailed pricing yet, however the floorplans have been released.

[passwordisnt123]

I generally like this development, though I think it is a bit of a wasted opportunity and is a bit underwhelming.

Someday somebody will have to explain to me the rationale of building new single detached homes in the middle of an area we're trying to urbanize.

[rocketphish]

Building as the snow flies:



http://greystonevillage.ca/webcam-feed

[waterloowarrior]

In Toronto and Vancouver this month and seeing lots of urban townhome developments with underground garages and pedestrian laneways between buildings. It creates a much more pleasant living space around your home and allows backyards for some designs while maintaining higher densities. It's too bad this project seems to have the rear yard garages or above ground parking lots for the townhomes. It wastes a lot of space and is a less pleasant living environment as you are surrounded by car spaces.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

In Toronto and Vancouver this month and seeing lots of urban townhome developments with underground garages and pedestrian laneways between buildings. It creates a much more pleasant living space around your home and allows backyards for some designs while maintaining higher densities. It's too bad this project seems to have the rear yard garages or above ground parking lots for the townhomes. It wastes a lot of space and is a less pleasant living environment as you are surrounded by car spaces.

Like the townhomes northwest of Ridgewood and Springland? Thats always been an appealing spot to me because of the below-grade parking. Generally makes things more espensive though, I think.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Like the townhomes northwest of Ridgewood and Springland? Thats always been an appealing spot to me because of the below-grade parking. Generally makes things more espensive though, I think.

Ravenhill Common (Churchill and Ravenhill, http://www.ravenhillcommon.com/) is an example of this. And yes, it adds cost, in the range of $50k per parking spot. It also means a condo agreement on (at least) the parking as opposed to freehold with a joint use and maintenance agreement.

[On Edge]

The all wood construction gives me the creeps. Five hundred grand?! Better hope you and your neighbor have the same taste in music and keep similar hours.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by On Edge

The all wood construction gives me the creeps. Five hundred grand?! Better hope you and your neighbor have the same taste in music and keep similar hours.

Why? The vast majority of townhouses in Ottawa are woodframe construction. Your concern about sound transfer is above average.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Why? The vast majority of townhouses in Ottawa are woodframe construction. Your concern about sound transfer is above average.

Double stud wood frame party wall in a typical townhome: STC 65
Double stud steel frame party wall in a 'better' condo: STC 67
Single stud steel frame party wall found in typical 'value' condos: STC 56
Concrete block party wall w/ wood furring , one layer of drywall: STC 60

With wood frame, the bigger issue is when you stack units on top of each other, vertically transfered impact noises are harder to handle, especially with hard surface floors (ceramic, hardwood).

[Multi-modal]

I looked at the Greystone subdivision plan, and they are in fact planning an arc of back-to-back town-homes with underground parking - opposite the existing Deschatelets building... to outline their "forecourt plaza".

[On Edge]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

Double stud wood frame party wall in a typical townhome: STC 65
Double stud steel frame party wall in a 'better' condo: STC 67
Single stud steel frame party wall found in typical 'value' condos: STC 56
Concrete block party wall w/ wood furring , one layer of drywall: STC 60

With wood frame, the bigger issue is when you stack units on top of each other, vertically transfered impact noises are harder to handle, especially with hard surface floors (ceramic, hardwood).

Concrete slab. STC in the 70s. Like in virtually all Toronto multiunits.