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  #101  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 3:04 PM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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There is a feature on the Cogswell Interchange in the CBC. Lots of information around its history and what the vision is for the future.

http://www.cbc.ca/ns/features/cogswe...?section=intro
Play by play history. I love it!!

Also: Those aerial photos are very recent. The Citadel Hotel Redevelopment and the RBC Waterside Centre both look good!!
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  #102  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2013, 11:24 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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There is a feature on the Cogswell Interchange in the CBC. Lots of information around its history and what the vision is for the future.

http://www.cbc.ca/ns/features/cogswe...?section=intro
In that slide show there is an early concept model for Scotia Square that looks fantastic! Reminds me of the shiny renderings of Nova Centre, but even better. Its too bad we got stuck with the concrete monstrosity that it became.

I have to admit, looking at the early plans, and hearing out the developers, I probably would have been in complete support of Harbour Drive at the time if I were an adult then, and very pissed off when it was quashed. I'd bet a lot of others on this board would have been too. I'm not saying that it was a good idea, hindsight is afterall 20/20. Its just quite easy for me to imagine how that proposal would have made it very exciting imagining the "Jetson's" future awaiting sleepy Halifax of the 60's, and how the usual naysayers seemed to want to block any progress or chance Halifax had at a real future.

At any rate, it didn't work out, and the preservation of the Historic Properties and waterfront have been reasonably successful. I look forward to getting on with the next stage for this area. Bring on the Jetson's!
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  #103  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 1:17 AM
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In that slide show there is an early concept model for Scotia Square that looks fantastic! Reminds me of the shiny renderings of Nova Centre, but even better. Its too bad we got stuck with the concrete monstrosity that it became.

I have to admit, looking at the early plans, and hearing out the developers, I probably would have been in complete support of Harbour Drive at the time if I were an adult then, and very pissed off when it was quashed. I'd bet a lot of others on this board would have been too. I'm not saying that it was a good idea, hindsight is afterall 20/20. Its just quite easy for me to imagine how that proposal would have made it very exciting imagining the "Jetson's" future awaiting sleepy Halifax of the 60's, and how the usual naysayers seemed to want to block any progress or chance Halifax had at a real future.

At any rate, it didn't work out, and the preservation of the Historic Properties and waterfront have been reasonably successful. I look forward to getting on with the next stage for this area. Bring on the Jetson's!

I'm unsure how Historic Properties makes any money. I expect that without NSCAD paying rent on otherwise unrentable space over the years the whole thing would have been in bankruptcy proceedings long ago. Certainly a couple of bars and a few tourist shops are unlikely to cover the costs of what is there.

As I have said before the results of Harbour Drive are unknown. It could well have been an improvement over what we ended up with.

I find that CBC piece has a distinct anti-development slant and the inclusion of the likes of Alan Ruffman destroys whatever credibility it may have had. The archival footage is interesting and really the most worthwhile part of it.
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  #104  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:16 AM
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As I have said before the results of Harbour Drive are unknown. It could well have been an improvement over what we ended up with.
No it wouldn't have. I'm usually willing to play what-if, but not in this case. Regardless of how well the waterfront is or is not working right now, it's vastly better than a traffic thoroughfare. The country is full of these plans--there was also an unrealized proposal in the 60s to to run a highway along the banks of Calgary's Bow River, which is today a naturalized area full of recreational trails and some limited development.

Few of these projects worked out, and the ones that did (the Gardiner Expressway) are widely regretted. Harbour Drive would've been a mistake, and we're better off without it.

As far as Historic Properties, it has troubles, but those troubles are largely connected to problems with downtown business overall. (Also, the interchange and its exits make everything on the north side of Granville a pedestrian no-go zone, which can't be helping. The interchange really can't come down soon enough.)

Anyway,
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  #105  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:27 AM
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No it wouldn't have. I'm usually willing to play what-if, but not in this case. Regardless of how well the waterfront is or is not working right now, it's vastly better than a traffic thoroughfare. The country is full of these plans--there was also an unrealized proposal in the 60s to to run a highway along the banks of Calgary's Bow River, which is today a naturalized area full of recreational trails and some limited development.

Few of these projects worked out, and the ones that did (the Gardiner Expressway) are widely regretted. Harbour Drive would've been a mistake, and we're better off without it.

As far as Historic Properties, it has troubles, but those troubles are largely connected to problems with downtown business overall. (Also, the interchange and its exits make everything on the north side of Granville a pedestrian no-go zone, which can't be helping. The interchange really can't come down soon enough.)
Well said. I agree completely.

Even though my friends from Toronto think downtown Halifax is tiny, they've all conveyed to me that Halifax is very lucky it has such a nice waterfront and that we never built anything like the Gardiner.

Of course we have to take vehicular traffic into consideration (with public transit) -- but people should be the main focus of our downtown.
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  #106  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 2:38 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Even though my friends from Toronto think downtown Halifax is tiny, they've all conveyed to me that Halifax is very lucky it has such a nice waterfront and that we never built anything like the Gardiner.
I wouldn't consider it to be tiny. It depends on what they consider downtown Halifax to be. Certainly it is smaller than Toronto's downtown but it compares favourably to other medium size cities.

One thing that makes it seem compact is that the downtown is divided by the Citadel Hill. If it weren't built around a hill then the large hospital buildings, university buildings, Spring Garden Road, and parts of the northend would be considered to be part of the downtown. Standing on the Citadel Hill the city looks quite impressive. Luckily Halifax has the Citadel Hill and harbour - worth more than several highrise towers, in my opinion.

Last edited by fenwick16; Mar 21, 2013 at 3:27 AM.
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  #107  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 3:02 AM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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I wouldn't consider it to be tiny. It depends on what they consider downtown Halifax to be. Certainly it is smaller than Toronto's downtown but it compares favourably to other medium size cities.
That's true. Still, when I moved here from Toronto a couple of years ago, the small size of the city and downtown was a slight sticking point for me. (I believe I said to someone at the time something like "Halifax is so great, but it's...little!")

But now that I've lived here a while, it doesn't bother me anymore. I occasionally get reminded of its smallness when returning from larger cities, but honestly, I kind of like the compactness. We pack a lot into a small area. Quality over quantity and all that. (And despite the size, it manages to feel a lot more metropolitan than I think most people expect. Winnipeg, for example, has more people and taller buildings, but Halifax has more of a buzz about it.)

Last edited by Drybrain; Mar 21, 2013 at 3:34 AM.
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  #108  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 3:08 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I would have to agree with the comment about the 'what if scenario'. The gardiner is just horrible and having something similar (but a scaled down Halifax version) would have been just bad. It would've cut off the waterfront from the rest of downtown...much like the Gardiner does now.

I don't think that the story has an anti-development slant with Alan Ruffman in it. He was a part of the group as I recall; so he has a place in the story to represent the group that helped to stop it. I would certainly say it was inappropriate if he started ranting on HbD or tall buildings, but he really just talked about the group who opposed it. The fact they had quite a bit of Andy Fillmore talking about the current plans, etc. makes me feel they actually gave it a very good densification slant.
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  #109  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 4:09 AM
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It seems unlikely that Harbour Drive would have worked out very well. A lot of cities today are trying to get rid of highways like that, and in most cases they had a negative impact on the neighbourhoods they were built through.

The old photo is amazing:



Halifax still could have had modern office towers. They just should have been built on the empty lots and old wharves in that picture, or in a new office district that was easy to serve with roads without tearing down historic buildings.
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  #110  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 5:14 AM
rkannegi rkannegi is offline
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I would favour putting the Gardiner Expressway underground, however, I have heard that building a tunnel under the existing Gardiner alignment would be very difficult, given that all of the land south of Front Street in Toronto is fill - the shoreline used to be near Front Street. Another way to deal with the Gardiner is to build a new freeway inland at the rail tracks - they could build it over the tracks as an elevated cable stayed bridge (less pillars on the ground and the increased height would allow sunlight to get underneath the new highway, or they could build a tunnel under the tracks). The new Gardiner should have any least one HOV lane in each direction.

For Halifax, it can do without the Cogswell Interchange, so I can't wait to see it knocked down. The only issue is the steep grade, but there are ways to get around that and get the new street blocks in place without tying up traffic (actually, because of the way the Cogswell is currently designed, removing it would actually improve vehicular traffic, transit included and make active transport easier).

One thing I would like to know, why in hell did HRM shut down the southbound off-ramp to Brunswick Street? They should have left that ramp in place until such time the Cogswell is torn down. (It's the ramp that almost followed the former Proctor Street)

The good thing, now that I am aware of the former Proctor Street right of way, I now suggest knocking down the western portion of the Trade Mart (if not the entire Trade Mart), temporarily "cul-de-saccing" Brunswick Street (northwest of the Cogswell/Brunswick/Proctor intersection) and re-opening Proctor Street, where Proctor would be used as a north-south detour while the Cogswell is ripped down and the new street grid is phased in its place.

I would favour completely re-developing Scotia Square into something more like what it was orginally meant to be. The Citadel Hotel site is being re-developed. So, I say, do the same thing with Scotia Square, including its parking garage.

Speaking of parking, they need to make parking garages with higher-clearance decks, seeing that some people have to own pick up trucks with toppers that end up with a clearance higher than 6 feet, resulting in people like me not being able to use any parking garage in the city, except for the Staples one on Cogswell. As a result, when I do have to make a trip downtown that cannot be shifted to Metro Transit (particularly when I am taking friends or family there, where I'm HOV more often than not), I have to fight for parking on the street. Just imagine what it's like for service vehicles. Not everybody can get by with just a small car, and nor can everyone divert to transit (some extremists in Halifax think that everyone can go to transit).

Therefore, they should reserve a few parking spots here and there for vehicles taller than 6 feet, and/or have parking garages with one or two decks with higher clearance (10-15 feet) and reserve enough spots for these vehicles so the smaller vehicles don't screw them out of parking. The rest of the parking decks should be at 8 ft clearance. There are also many people that are taller than 6 feet anyways, so they really should sort out parking garage standards. The new Scotia Square needs to be transit friendly as well, along with a more straight forward internal hallway design.

Downtown needs some bus/HOV lanes on its major roads. Metro Transit needs a big kick in the butt so that way people like us can get a better shot at diverting some of out trips to transit (particularly instead of going SOV when going alone and not needing to haul anything more than a brief case).

If the extremists here in Halifax in the environmental/real estate/heritage interests have there way, i.e. Car Free Halifax, there would be no off-street parking at all on the Peninsula, let alone roadside parking. Thankfully, it's only a small proportion, but the extremists do have a lot more political sway in Halifax than most cities, to the point that even suggesting improved parking at a reasonable amount is almost considered a sin. (Halifax is getting close to being a small version of greater Vancouver, BC, whose road network has been physically GRIDLOCKED by this extreme way of thinking). The extremists have even gone against improving transit to the suburbs as a way of trying to force people to live in the core - do they not have a clue how EXPENSIVE it is to live on the Peninsula?? Most people would like to be able to walk to work, but most people can't because they are litterally priced out to the suburbs.

Hopefully, with the new Mayor and the few new councilors in HRM, we can finally have some clear-minded planning here! It's bad that even Thunder Bay, Ontario, my home city, is now making much more progress in its Downtown North Core revitalization planning in the last 3 years than HRM has done with the entire Halifax Peninsula over the last 13 years, with Thunder Bay and much of Northern Ontario still being under economic conditions that are MUCH harsher than what Nova Scotia is experiencing.

If mainstream residents of Halifax were to take a good look at the "Northern Ontario Developments!" thread on Skyscraper Page, they would be FURIOUS!!

Regards,

Richard Kannegiesser

Last edited by rkannegi; Mar 21, 2013 at 5:31 AM.
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  #111  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 5:57 AM
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I agree that Halifax's road network is not very good. However, the lack of affordability argument is a bit of an oversimplification. Detached houses are expensive on the peninsula. That won't change, because there's only so many of them. There could be a lot more multi-unit buildings though. Unfortunately multi-unit on the peninsula costs more than it needs to because of the many barriers that limit new construction -- many neighbourhoods are basically "off limits", and others like the North End still have long approval times. If we had quick approval times for highrises around areas like Young Street they wouldn't have to be a whole lot more expensive than Clayton Park.

When you look at how many people the metro area has added (maybe 40,000 or so over the last 10 years) and how many people the urban centre could handle (probably 50,000 more inside the Circ and on the peninsula), it is clear that encouraging more urban infill could be a huge win in terms of reducing the need for more roads in the suburbs. The added population would also make it easier to support transit like LRT that could also serve suburban areas. There's room for road construction too, but it's only about 1/3 of the story.
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  #112  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
No it wouldn't have. I'm usually willing to play what-if, but not in this case. Regardless of how well the waterfront is or is not working right now, it's vastly better than a traffic thoroughfare. The country is full of these plans--there was also an unrealized proposal in the 60s to to run a highway along the banks of Calgary's Bow River, which is today a naturalized area full of recreational trails and some limited development.

Few of these projects worked out, and the ones that did (the Gardiner Expressway) are widely regretted. Harbour Drive would've been a mistake, and we're better off without it.
Pure planning theory dogma. You don't know. Nobody does. That statement is the same as the development obstructionists claiming any building over 4 storeys in height is not of human scale and therefore bad.
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  #113  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rkannegi View Post

If the extremists here in Halifax in the environmental/real estate/heritage interests have there way, i.e. Car Free Halifax, there would be no off-street parking at all on the Peninsula, let alone roadside parking. Thankfully, it's only a small proportion, but the extremists do have a lot more political sway in Halifax than most cities, to the point that even suggesting improved parking at a reasonable amount is almost considered a sin. (Halifax is getting close to being a small version of greater Vancouver, BC, whose road network has been physically GRIDLOCKED by this extreme way of thinking). The extremists have even gone against improving transit to the suburbs as a way of trying to force people to live in the core - do they not have a clue how EXPENSIVE it is to live on the Peninsula?? Most people would like to be able to walk to work, but most people can't because they are litterally priced out to the suburbs.
Excellent statement. These types hold sway in HRM sadly, thanks to the infiltration of HRM staff by the Ecology Action Center types and aa number of ill-advised hires.

Quote:
Hopefully, with the new Mayor and the few new councilors in HRM, we can finally have some clear-minded planning here! It's bad that even Thunder Bay, Ontario, my home city, is now making much more progress in its Downtown North Core revitalization planning in the last 3 years than HRM has done with the entire Halifax Peninsula over the last 13 years, with Thunder Bay and much of Northern Ontario still being under economic conditions that are MUCH harsher than what Nova Scotia is experiencing.
Don't hold your breath. Council members like Watts and Mason are likely to want to spend big money on measures that do little except to discourage investment and development downtown in favor of unused bike lanes and measures that will drive away development.
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  #114  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2013, 1:56 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
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That's true. Still, when I moved here from Toronto a couple of years ago, the small size of the city and downtown was a slight sticking point for me. (I believe I said to someone at the time something like "Halifax is so great, but it's...little!")

But now that I've lived here a while, it doesn't bother me anymore. I occasionally get reminded of its smallness when returning from larger cities, but honestly, I kind of like the compactness. We pack a lot into a small area. Quality over quantity and all that. (And despite the size, it manages to feel a lot more metropolitan than I think most people expect. Winnipeg, for example, has more people and taller buildings, but Halifax has more of a buzz about it.)
I think that cuts both ways. I live in Toronto now, but used to live in Fredericton. When I'd come back to Halifax by bus (I usually rented a car but sometimes I went by bus to save money) it would come over the harbor and I'd be flabbergasted and think to myself: "I forgot how HUGE Halifax is!"

Now that I'm in TO, it seems the other way around. It feels small, but compact, which works in its favor. And let's keep in mind, people coming from TO are arriving from the 4th-largest city in North America.

I tend to think humans work on a certain 'two-week cycle' of short-term memory. Put me in Fredericton for two weeks, maybe a bit more, then pull me back out and I'll be popping my eyes on how big everything is. But I come out of TO and put me in Fredericton and I'll be thinking about how it's like a shack in the woods.

As for Halifax being compact, that has a considerable amount going for it when you consider it really doesn't have a lot of tall buildings. A lot of these infill projects on the peninsula could serve to make it MORE compact.
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  #115  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 2:15 PM
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  #116  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2013, 6:56 PM
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Those early models of Scotia Square look AMAZING. Is it too late to still build that?
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  #117  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Excellent statement. These types hold sway in HRM sadly, thanks to the infiltration of HRM staff by the Ecology Action Center types and aa number of ill-advised hires.

Don't hold your breath. Council members like Watts and Mason are likely to want to spend big money on measures that do little except to discourage investment and development downtown in favor of unused bike lanes and measures that will drive away development.
Demonstrably not true, but don't let that stop you, it never does.
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  #118  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 3:18 AM
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Demonstrably not true, but don't let that stop you, it never does.
Not too sure about the "demonstrably" part. You do support useless bike lanes, and haven't done anything to show that you are in favor of development downtown. Calling for more tax dollars to go to artists isn't a key part of your job.
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  #119  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Not too sure about the "demonstrably" part. You do support useless bike lanes, and haven't done anything to show that you are in favor of development downtown. Calling for more tax dollars to go to artists isn't a key part of your job.
In any given week I am touching on cogswell, transit, infrastructure money for downtown (much easier to imagine now that the Feds have reupped the build Canada fund), the regional plan, the centre plan, and a tiny bit of active transportation.

Tax reform and relief and development charges are a major thrust for after this budget cycle, by time the election happened and without a landslide change in council, it was too late to change direction for 13/14 though some small things are happening. Look for this in 14/15.

What I have done 'in favor' of downtown are two main things:

1 - I got council talking and staff working on actually acting on the economic strategy, the Community Planning Economic Development Standing Committee has a report coming to create the $50 million dollar Urban Core fund, $10 mil over 5 years and an ongoing strategic reserve - we will see paving and street scaping accelerate in the main commercial areas. http://halifaxmag.com/2013/03/featur...-for-downtown/

2 - I have a open for business approach to downtown/SGR. I meet with the BID Exec Dir regularly, attend their board meetings, and call and email every business or developer in the papers saying they may move to or build in downtown. I set up my office at city hall as a place to meet informally with all these investors and stakeholders, so for example the paper had the news about the NFB development on a Thursday or Friday and in less than a week was meeting Steve and his architect in my office to talk about what I could do to help.

As for the other stuff:

Bikes - The thing is, all the data nationally shows that people and employers place a very high value on walking or biking to work, so it IS important to the economic well being to the city, all $1 million a year that goes on AT trails for the entire area. While the entire regions modal split is nothing too amazing (10% walk, 1% bike to work) the splits in the core (Dartmouth and peninsula) are high, 40% and more walk and bike to work. This is a great thing that is increasing, so it has worked to keep cars in driveways, keeping pressure off roads. This is measurable progress that saves the city money and these investments help attract and retain business in the core.

But it is also about 3 hours a month of work, being prep and participation in one committee meeting a month. Hardly defines my work week.

Arts - This is also a small part of my time, but yes, I will fight for HRM having comparable programs to every other medium size city in Canada. Of course. Why not? We should have what London, Victoria, Saskatoon has, shouldn't we? Arts also plays a part in creating an attractive place to live and work, and we need to be in that space, again, it is small ball in terms of money, but it still needs to be done.
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  #120  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2013, 12:42 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Waye Mason View Post
In any given week I am touching on cogswell, transit, infrastructure money for downtown (much easier to imagine now that the Feds have reupped the build Canada fund), the regional plan, the centre plan, and a tiny bit of active transportation.

Tax reform and relief and development charges are a major thrust for after this budget cycle, by time the election happened and without a landslide change in council, it was too late to change direction for 13/14 though some small things are happening. Look for this in 14/15.

What I have done 'in favor' of downtown are two main things:

1 - I got council talking and staff working on actually acting on the economic strategy, the Community Planning Economic Development Standing Committee has a report coming to create the $50 million dollar Urban Core fund, $10 mil over 5 years and an ongoing strategic reserve - we will see paving and street scaping accelerate in the main commercial areas. http://halifaxmag.com/2013/03/featur...-for-downtown/

2 - I have a open for business approach to downtown/SGR. I meet with the BID Exec Dir regularly, attend their board meetings, and call and email every business or developer in the papers saying they may move to or build in downtown. I set up my office at city hall as a place to meet informally with all these investors and stakeholders, so for example the paper had the news about the NFB development on a Thursday or Friday and in less than a week was meeting Steve and his architect in my office to talk about what I could do to help.

As for the other stuff:

Bikes - The thing is, all the data nationally shows that people and employers place a very high value on walking or biking to work, so it IS important to the economic well being to the city, all $1 million a year that goes on AT trails for the entire area. While the entire regions modal split is nothing too amazing (10% walk, 1% bike to work) the splits in the core (Dartmouth and peninsula) are high, 40% and more walk and bike to work. This is a great thing that is increasing, so it has worked to keep cars in driveways, keeping pressure off roads. This is measurable progress that saves the city money and these investments help attract and retain business in the core.

But it is also about 3 hours a month of work, being prep and participation in one committee meeting a month. Hardly defines my work week.

Arts - This is also a small part of my time, but yes, I will fight for HRM having comparable programs to every other medium size city in Canada. Of course. Why not? We should have what London, Victoria, Saskatoon has, shouldn't we? Arts also plays a part in creating an attractive place to live and work, and we need to be in that space, again, it is small ball in terms of money, but it still needs to be done.
It is great to see that you are encouraging development. I like this especially - I have a open for business approach to downtown/SGR. I meet with the BID Exec Dir regularly, attend their board meetings, and call and email every business or developer in the papers saying they may move to or build in downtown.

More politicians have to focus on promoting development and job growth in the Halifax area. There are still too many people who must leave the province to find work instead of moving closer to home. There were several thousand people who moved from the province in the last quarter (according to allnovascotia.com)
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