Winnipeg | Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries Head Office | Cancelled

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Biff

From Bartley Kivis on Twitter:

Bartley Kives ‏@bkives 17m17 minutes ago

"You know that small surface lot along Graham Avenue in the Liquor & Lotteries HQ drawing? Ain't gonna happen, Minister Lemieux pledges.

Lemieux said the MLL HQ design is just that and the building will conform to modern urban standards."

Does that mean that it will just be a plaza? Because "modern urban standards" would have the podium going to the sidewalk with main floor retail..

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It's mentioned by whom.

It was Dave Shorr I believe. Could have been someone in a conversation with Dave Shorr, don't recall.

He's trolling you. Ignore him and he'll go away.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Does that mean that it will just be a plaza? Because "modern urban standards" would have the podium going to the sidewalk with main floor retail..

There's nothing wrong with a plaza.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

He's trolling you. Ignore him and he'll go away.

Good advice, thank you.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

There's nothing wrong with a plaza.

Graham "Mall" doesn't need another plaza that's windy and empty 300 days a year, Hydro and TNS will be the perfect amount. The other side of that block has many CRUs and is really active, matching it on the other side would be great.

[buzzg]

So looking at the pics again they talk about how it's a five storey addition with the first 2 being retail... Those first 2 floors are already there, they're just adding 3 floors on top, no new public retail/commercial.

[buzzg]

Here's Bartley's article on the MB gov't saying they'll work with the city to get the building "right" ... let's pray.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...330183131.html

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

From Bartley Kivis on Twitter:

Bartley Kives ‏@bkives 17m17 minutes ago

"You know that small surface lot along Graham Avenue in the Liquor & Lotteries HQ drawing? Ain't gonna happen, Minister Lemieux pledges.

Lemieux said the MLL HQ design is just that and the building will conform to modern urban standards."

THANK GOD

I'm fine with MBLL taking the budget route with this project. Filling a half empty downtown tower bought for an improbably cheap price sounds OK to me, and I can even live with a weirdly forced addition. However, that parking lot was just gratuitously offensive and getting rid of it was priority one. Now priority two should be to build this thing in line with proper urban design principles and build it right up to the sidewalk. Winnipeg is not Manhattan or Tokyo where we have this unbelievably dense downtown whee plazas are needed to provide some respite. These almost always turn out to be atmosphere killing dead zones.... I still think hydro's plaza on Graham was a mistake.

Incidentally, what happened to all of the MAB's tenants? Not that long ago the building's shares were publicly traded.... I'm assuming it was owned mainly by the docs who occupied it? What happened? They sold to Huntingdon who drove all the tenants away?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Graham "Mall" doesn't need another plaza that's windy and empty 300 days a year, Hydro and TNS will be the perfect amount. The other side of that block has many CRUs and is really active, matching it on the other side would be great.

I agree 100%.

Why is it that nearly every new building downtown fancies itself to be some sort of showpiece that demands a space wasting plaza out in front? I wish land wasn't so chea so as to discourage that.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

THANK GOD

I'm fine with MBLL taking the budget route with this project. Filling a half empty downtown tower bought for an improbably cheap price sounds OK to me, and I can even live with a weirdly forced addition. However, that parking lot was just gratuitously offensive and getting rid of it was priority one. Now priority two should be to build this thing in line with proper urban design principles and build it right up to the sidewalk. Winnipeg is not Manhattan or Tokyo where we have this unbelievably dense downtown whee plazas are needed to provide some respite. These almost always turn out to be atmosphere killing dead zones.... I still think hydro's plaza on Graham was a mistake.

Incidentally, what happened to all of the MAB's tenants? Not that long ago the building's shares were publicly traded.... I'm assuming it was owned mainly by the docs who occupied it? What happened? They sold to Huntingdon who drove all the tenants away?

All the docs aged out! Seriously. The rest of them are mostly on month-to-month leases now. The building sold when the windups began.

[BigG]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree 100%.

Why is it that nearly every new building downtown fancies itself to be some sort of showpiece that demands a space wasting plaza out in front? I wish land wasn't so chea so as to discourage that.

A perfect example is Air Canada Park beside the APTN building. Total waste of space. I would sooner see a mid-rise mixed use on that corner. That corner really gets under my skin.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree 100%.

Why is it that nearly every new building downtown fancies itself to be some sort of showpiece that demands a space wasting plaza out in front? I wish land wasn't so chea so as to discourage that.

Plazas are cheap. That's why owners like them.

Extending this building out to the sidewalk is going to add millions to the budget.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Incidentally, what happened to all of the MAB's tenants? Not that long ago the building's shares were publicly traded.... I'm assuming it was owned mainly by the docs who occupied it? What happened? They sold to Huntingdon who drove all the tenants away?

I could be wrong but I am guessing high rents and a desired to be closer to their patients has been leading newer graduates to setup shop in more suburban settings, often in a strip mall. Ask yourself this question: the last time you went to a doctor, dentist, etc, where was there office? I know as a child that answer was almost always Medical Arts and now it is the suburbs.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Plazas are cheap. That's why owners like them.

Extending this building out to the sidewalk is going to add millions to the budget.

Oh definitely. If it's an either-or scenario I'd much rather they just buy the surface lot and build a freestanding 4-5 storey office building with streetfront retail... we all know the only reason they bought the tower was for the parkade.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

He's trolling you. Ignore him and he'll go away.

I wasn't trolling him at all. It was a rather ludicrous suggestion that likely has no bearing in reality. But I'm happy I got a reaction from the king of the trolls and the number one Chipman/True North conspiracy theorist. We'd all love it if you'd come clean on what it is that True North did to you. It's got to be something really good for the level of bitterness you have. Or could it just be that they're successful and that kind of makes you pale in comparison? Please illuminate us.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

All the docs aged out! Seriously. The rest of them are mostly on month-to-month leases now. The building sold when the windups began.

That would make sense. My experience is like CoryB's, I remember going there as a kid. Now the only person I know who goes there is my dad. He is a patient of Dr Bartlett who is, no joke, closing in on 100. His clinic probably hasn't changed since the building was built... it looks like a set from Mad Men up there ("Pete Campbell contracts syphilis and doesn't want Trudy to find out").

Why did they all bail? The building looks perfectly serviceable and the location is convenient.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

That would make sense. My experience is like CoryB's, I remember going there as a kid. Now the only person I know who goes there is my dad. He is a patient of Dr Bartlett who is, no joke, closing in on 100. His clinic probably hasn't changed since the building was built... it looks like a set from Mad Men up there ("Pete Campbell contracts syphilis and doesn't want Trudy to find out").

Why did they all bail? The building looks perfectly serviceable and the location is convenient.

the dental clinic i go to moved about a year ago from the mab to 444 st mary. ultra modern set up that probably couldnt be accomodated at the old place. i know they had a lot of complaints about the mab in terms of upkeep.

[cllew]

Huntingdon REIT had money problems until they got bought out earlier this year by another REIT and let a number of their buildings drift downwards. I am sure the MAB was one of the buildings that drifted.

I think that its all medical buildings downtown that are suffering from lack of upgrading. I had to go to a dermatologist in the Boyd Building and that building looks like it has not had any work in decades. The public common spaces were dingy and the Dr.s office had broken floor tiles and paint that in was last in fashion from the 60's.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

That would make sense. My experience is like CoryB's, I remember going there as a kid. Now the only person I know who goes there is my dad. He is a patient of Dr Bartlett who is, no joke, closing in on 100. His clinic probably hasn't changed since the building was built... it looks like a set from Mad Men up there ("Pete Campbell contracts syphilis and doesn't want Trudy to find out").

Why did they all bail? The building looks perfectly serviceable and the location is convenient.

I don't really know. Probably a lot of what you and CoryB are saying though: it's more convenient to be in the suburbs.

But the model has also changed. Outside of specialists, it's all about pumping pharmaceuticals. You'll notice that there's nearly always a pharmacy outside of the medical clinic now. Generally speaking, the pharmacist is offering incentives to the doctors to keep the scrips coming. Free rent, free administration, accounts in the docs wife's name where a couple bucks from every scrip is being deposited, free trips - you name it, it's happening. And that model doesn't work when you don't have a location that can easily put a pharmacy near it. Just having one in the building is great for the pharmacist, but it doesn't do much for the physicians. If you ever look in the Manitoba health magazine - I can't remember the name offhand - you'll see ads for pharmacists seeking doctors with regularity. That's for this reason. The pharmacy doesn't exist without the clinic.

[cllew]

that makes sense, the Dr I go to on McPhillips had a pharmacy open up in their building about a year or so ago.

The Dr's group took out a few examination rooms to make space for the front counter and work area.