Hale/Trafalgar Overpass

[manny_santos]

I am not sure why there has been a steady stream of Londoners complaining about the plans for the Hale/Trafalgar overpass. Letters to the Editor in the Free Press keep referring to it as an overpass for Hale Street, without even mentioning Trafalgar - even though the plans specifically call for the intersection to be located above the tracks, thereby providing an overpass for Trafalgar.

Now think about it, what major thoroughfare runs parallel to Trafalgar? I am sure an overpass on Trafalgar will take pressure off Dundas, which I know has very high traffic volumes east of Highbury.

I believe the City should hold off on grade separations on both Richmond and Adelaide. The CP Rail corridor would be ideal for a mass transportation corridor such as a monorail or a dedicated bus road, and it may cost less to build such a corridor to pass over both streets. I would like to see CN and CP have amalgamated tracks through London, and it could be done easily with an rail interchange in the Komoka area and another one near Woodstock, both locations where the tracks run close to each other.

[ldoto]

Update!!!

Wed, June 24, 2009

The last piece of the Hale-Trafalgar overpass puzzle appears to be in place with CN bringing nearly $2 million to the table for the project.

But London taxpayers may be on the hook for more than that if the project goes over budget.

In a report to board of control, city staff noted that construction costs are still going up and the project isn't expected to begin until next year.

But Coun. Roger Caranci, who has pushed the project for nine years, said he's confident with the city's numbers.

"It's a difficult thing to do any type of estimate on the bridge but the city has done their best on trying to get a final costing," he said. "CN has to know what they're limited to."




The $16.3-million overpass was one of the most costly projects approved for stimulus funding from senior governments.

Caranci said this is the only project with four partners at the table, making it a great deal for the city.

Board of control will vote on a staff recommendation today to approve the shared cost with CN, with the railway's share capped at $1.975 million.

It then goes to city council next Monday.

Caranci said he's confident the overpass at the rail crossing at Hale and Trafalgar streets will be built.

"To back down from something we put in for stimulus funding is not the right thing to do. CN is at the table," said Caranci. "The residents of east London deserve this. The residents of east London deserve good traffic flows and deserve to have industry remain in London and be serviced by CN."

The city and CN have already put in $1.25 million each in the project's first phase. The federal and provincial governments have each committed $3.95 million to the second phase, with the city and CN chipping in another $1.975 million each.

While the overpass would benefit Londoners, it would also reduce costs for CN by allowing the railway to form and disassemble trains more quickly, because its rail yard is just to the west of the crossing.

The overpass, at a crossing where long train tie-ups have infuriated drivers for years, has been controversial, with some on council saying the money earmarked for the bridge could have been used for other projects that would have had a greater benefit to all Londoners.

Caranci said council deserves credit for advancing the project after talking about it for several years.

"Council has finally understood it's a good thing," he said.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ldoto

Update!!!

That's what prompted me to post my thought

[JrUrbanDesigner]

I think this is an very intersting and innovative idea for London.. Im from Europe were large arterial-arterial roundabouts exist and I think they work great and can definately look great too, if they do a decent job landscaping the middle or placing some sort of public art. Its about time London looks into a roundabout project other than in a suburban context - were in my opinion they dont really belong..

Heres the LFP article-

Traffic roundabout pulls out all the stops
OVERPASS PROJECT: A circular intersection is expected to save money and headaches

By GEOFF TURNER, SPECIAL TO THE FREE PRESS

Last Updated: 16th December 2009, 4:32am
Email StoryPrintSize A A AReport TypoShare with:
FacebookDiggDel.icio.usGoogleStumble UponNewsvineRedditTechnoratiFeed MeYahooSimpySquidooSpurlBlogmarksNetvouzScuttleSitejot+ What are these? .When the dust finally settles on London's new Hale-Trafalgar overpass, the headache of railway bottlenecks will be replaced with a surprise to many drivers -- the city's first major traffic roundabout.

The novel feature has been included in the $17-million project to help solve congestion at the east-end intersection.

Common in Europe but not so much in Canada, roundabouts are big, circular intersections where traffic converges without signals or stop signs, allowing continuous vehicle movement. That efficiency also means less environmentally harmful stop-and-go driving.

At the site of the future overpass, Trafalgar St. isn't in alignment: The westbound lanes connect with Hale St. north of the tracks, while the eastbound lanes connect with Hale south of the tracks.

The roundabout will solve problems, city transport planner John Lucas said.

"Instead of just a simple north-south or east-west crossing, it's both," he says. A regular, conventional intersection would have required a more expensive solution.

To many Canadians, accustomed to the strict order of green, yellow and red lights, roundabouts can seem like anarchy -- the idea, that thousands of vehicles can merge and flow seamlessly without stopping, simply preposterous.

That fear is one reason North American cities have been slower to embrace roundabouts.

While London has a few one-lane suburban traffic circles, Lucas doesn't think we're ready yet for the high-volume roundabouts found around the world.

"Canadians are just getting used to one-lane roundabouts, let alone three," he said. "You've got to let them grow into it. We're certainly not going to take a huge intersection and replace it with a multi-lane roundabout."

Stephen Sargeant has heard that argument before but he dismisses it outright. As a traffic engineer with AECOM Engineering in Kingston, he's worked on the design and construction of roundabouts for more than a decade. He cites examples where large roundabouts have been installed to great success, despite no previous local experience.

"In Clearwater, Florida, they installed a roundabout that has six approaches," he said. "Everyone said it would be a problem, and now they love it."

Just up the road from London, Waterloo Region has embraced roundabouts big-time.

The region built its first in 2004 and now has 15. Another 20 are planned, including a corridor between Kitchener and Cambridge that would have eight in a row, said Steve VanderKeere of the Waterloo Region transportation department.

He said while there was an adjustment period for drivers, the evidence has already shown significant gains in safety. There's been a reduction in crashes, but -- more importantly -- the crashes are less severe, he said.

"We know for certain that we've prevented a lot of trips to the hospital," he said. "It's nice to be able to say that."

The region has backed up the roundabout policy with a public awareness campaign, including a whimsical music video for The Roundabout Dance, a song that explains roundabout etiquette.

While London has a few one-lane suburban traffic circles, Lucas doesn't think we're ready yet for the high-volume roundabouts found around the world.

"Canadians are just getting used to one-lane roundabouts, let alone three," he said. "We're certainly not going to take a huge intersection and replace it with a multi-lane roundabout."

Stephen Sargeant has heard that argument before, but dismisses it outright. As a traffic engineer with AECOM Engineering in Kingston, he's worked on the design and construction of roundabouts for more than a decade. He cites examples where large roundabouts have been installed to great success, despite no previous local experience.

"In Clearwater, Florida, they installed a roundabout that has six approaches," he said. "Everyone said it would be a problem, and now they love it."

Waterloo Region has embraced roundabouts big-time.

The region built its first in 2004 and now has 15. Another 20 are planned, including a corridor between Kitchener and Cambridge that would have eight in a row, said Steve VanderKeere of the Waterloo Region transportation department.

He said while there was an adjustment period for drivers, the evidence has already shown significant gains in safety. There's been a reduction in crashes, but -- more importantly -- the crashes are less severe.

"We know for certain that we've prevented a lot of trips to the hospital," he said. "It's nice to be able to say that."

VanderKeere also points to potential environmental benefits of replacing signalled intersections.

The environmental logic of roundabouts is simple: The circles allow traffic to flow continuously, reducing stops and starts and wasteful idling. Cars can cover more ground in less time, at lower speeds. The results are quieter roads, lighter fuel consumption and lower emissions.

Lucas doesn't believe the environmental benefits of roundabouts are significant enough to put at the centre of London's carbon reduction plans, however.

"There are much bigger gains to be made from federal emission reductions than we can accomplish by building roundabouts," he said.

Tony Redington, a former policy analyst with the Vermont Agency of Transportation, disagrees. He conducted a survey of emissions reduction from roundabout projects around the U.S. He concluded that by replacing 25 busy signalled intersections, Burlington, Vt., could achieve 25% of its ambitious emissions reduction targets.

Having visited London, he thinks the city would be ideal for some refits.

"It has those big, wide thoroughfares that are just perfect for roundabouts," he said.

[manny_santos]

I think it's a good idea. I've seen roundabouts in action in Hamilton and K-W as well as in several cities in Mexico, and they work well.

I saw plans presented at a planning committee meeting in 2007 that included a roundabout at Hamilton and Commissioners Roads. Whatever happened to that?

[ldoto]

Update!!!!

Our break from dealing with major construction spots in the city may be coming to an end in just a few weeks.

If Council gives it the green light on Monday, construction to build an overpass over the Hale-Trafalgar railway crossing could start in less than a month.

It will take about a year to complete the multi-million dollar project which will feature the city's first traffic round-about on a major road.

If Council gives the $16.3m project the final OK at their meeting on February 1st, work could begin as early as February 15th.

City Staff have already sent out warnings about potential severe traffic delays to schools, their buses, waste and recycling collecters, snow plows, the LTC, and Canada Post.

Right now, plans call for traffic to be detoured onto nearby Highbury Ave., Brydges St. and Hamilton Rd. About 30 property owners had to sell their land so the overpass could be built.

The City needs to get the asphalt laid by November so the project can wrap up by March of next year which is the deadline for federal infrastructure money.

[MolsonExport]

what a shitload of moolah for just an overpass. oh well, after shelling out millions over the years for orchestra london, who gives two shits about the taxpayers?

Snark (Timothy Worst)? Snaa-arrk? Was you dere, mein herrein?

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

what a shitload of moolah for just an overpass. oh well, after shelling out millions over the years for orchestra london, who gives two shits about the taxpayers?

Snark (Timothy Worst)? Snaa-arrk? Was you dere, mein herrein?

I never left, I just grew tired of arguing. I deal with far more heat professionally every day than is here - so, no temper tantrums, it's just that life is far too short. You guys really don't seem to understand the way things actually work, and seem to have no willingness to learn or accept reality if it contradicts your worldview. There is little dialogue here that is meaningful or remotely professional (as exemplified in your obscenity-laden, completely factually incorrect post above). Hence, little point in continuing for me. I'm sure that you shall mock me or something or other for my comments, but I really don't care. Mock away.....

As for the overpass, I actually do this sort of thing for a living (nope, I'm not Tim Best - I'm a hell of a lot smarter than that guy), and $16M is not at all out of line for that project. A good deal of it will be paid for with federal stimulus money and the railroad as well. I'm sure you won't accept this, but this is actually a great deal for the City for a project long overdue. The engineering solution itself is imaginative and novel as well. For the City, this is a great engineering project with excellent financial arrangements. The City is showing excellent stewardship by executing this project in the manner it is - despite what you think.

[MolsonExport]

I would assume that since you "deal with far more heat professionally every day than is here" that you would therefore be able to consistently respond methodically and calmly to what you perceive as ill-informed posts. In fact, given your involvement in urban development, you could make some enlightening contributions. But instead, you get extremely personal, presumptuous and downright mean-directly to forumers which is not at all the same thing as criticizing elected officials and/or public servants.

I will admit, that your most recent post is a step in the right direction.

[haljackey]

Took some photos of the overpass for a site analysis. May as well post them here:

[go_leafs_go02]

nice pictures...will be interested to see how it turns out..

kinda thought this project would be further ahead than what it is right now.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

nice pictures...will be interested to see how it turns out..

kinda thought this project would be further ahead than what it is right now.

The overpass has run both behind schedule and over budget.

However, for a project as unique as this one, it doesn't surprise me. Whoever thought of building a roundabout on top of a rail line was either a genius or nuts. Only way to know for sure is how cars behave when this thing opens.

[Kokkei Mizu]

The late Charley Fox, a decorated Second World War fighter pilot, may soon have his name enshrined on a special new London landmark.

Board of control is being asked to name the $16.3-million Hale-Trafalgar overpass project in east London after the Spitfire pilot who died in a car crash near Tillsonburg in 2008.

“The Charley Fox Bridge” would be part of the combined bridge and traffic roundabout that’s expected to ease road congestion at the CN Rail crossing.

The idea, proposed by Coun. Roger Caranci after consulting members of Fox’s family, is being recommended by administration.

Fox, a D-Day veteran and a double recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, is credited with strafing the staff car of German Field Marshall Erwin Rommel in occupied France in 1944.

During the attack, Rommel was injured, sidelining the wily commander known as the Desert Fox for his earlier successes in North Africa.

In his later years, Fox, whose family lived on Clarke Rd., was active in helping school children learn about veterans. He was also active in the Canadian Harvard Association. He died in a car crash after attending a meeting of the association, dedicated to the venerable training aircraft.

Caranci said he wanted to honour Fox for some time and waited until he located the Fox family and they agreed. Now that he’s about to leave local office, Caranci said this was a bit of unfinished business.

“We have never done enough to honour our veterans,” he said. He termed it “coincidence” his request went to board of control on the eve of Remembrance Day.

Jim Fox, son of the war hero, said the family was honoured but his father “would have wanted to see some recognition for all veterans.”

Caranci said he hopes some sort of memorial for all veterans can eventually be included in the roundabout.

Fox, of Kitchener, said his family owned the house on Clarke Rd. just south of Dundas St. for nearly 50 years.

Charley Fox, 88, who cheated death many times during his military career, was made an honorary colonel and was saluted with a memorial service in Ottawa after he died.

The Hale-Trafalgar overpass is expected to be completed early next year.

[Simpseatles]

Is there any real need for this overpass?

Hale is only a couple of blocks away from Highbury, and Trafalgar is a secondary main road, that passes through mostly residential areas. I think the city should've used the money to build a new bridge for the Sarnia Road rail overpass or something.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Is there any real need for this overpass?

Hale is only a couple of blocks away from Highbury, and Trafalgar is a secondary main road, that passes through mostly residential areas. I think the city should've used the money to build a new bridge for the Sarnia Road rail overpass or something.

Trafalgar is classified as an arterial, the same level as Dundas - the only difference is that part of Trafalgar is not a 24-hour truck route.

With the amount of traffic on Dundas, I think this is very much needed to divert traffic off Dundas.

Sarnia Road will get its bridge soon enough.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Is there any real need for this overpass?

Hale is only a couple of blocks away from Highbury

To add, Highbury is already at-capacity and is getting quite congested. Adding relief nearby (mostly Hale Street, but Trafalgar will help as well) will help distribute traffic flow over the CN rail line.

[Simpseatles]

^ I guess it is a pretty important project. The fact that the City decided to go with something so other-worldly to Londoners as a traffic circle is quite cool. Hopefully this leads to more traffic circles being built at places like the Hamilton, Commisioners, and Old Victoia intersection.

[MolsonExport]

Is there some reason why London abhors thru-roads? Highbury and Wonderland are the only complete North-South Roads (and the latter does not connect yet to 401); Oxford and Fanshawe Park the only complete East-West Roads.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Is there some reason why London abhors thru-roads? Highbury and Wonderland are the only complete North-South Roads (and the latter does not connect yet to 401); Oxford and Fanshawe Park the only complete East-West Roads.

It's all environmental issues that have come up over the years - proposed connections betwen Huron/Sarnia and Kilally/Windermere/Gainsborough have been on the books for decades.

I don't think there's too many cities that have many true thru-roads anyways, aside from major highways. Even Ottawa's Hunt Club Road isn't yet complete on the east end.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Is there some reason why London abhors thru-roads? Highbury and Wonderland are the only complete North-South Roads (and the latter does not connect yet to 401); Oxford and Fanshawe Park the only complete East-West Roads.

What about Commissioners? It goes from the east end to the west.