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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 12:44 PM
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Pay to park in front of your home

Pay to park in front of your home - the CoC is pondering this and it already is in place in other cities in Canada. Link to Calgary Sun story.

Quote:
When they charge you to park in front of your house ... don’t say you weren't warned
Michael Platt

They've got you coming and going — and now Calgary is musing over a user fee for just staying put.

How steep a fee? In Ottawa, homeowners currently pay $648 a year for the right to park in front of their homes.

In Toronto, a residential permit costs $86 for six months of parking, while Vancouver charges an annual fee between $36.70 and $73.40, depending on where you live and how much demand there is for a place at the curb.

How much will it be in Calgary, if approved by city council? Well, that’s partially up to you.

In what it described as a fact-finding survey only — “there’s nothing in the pipeline” — the Calgary Parking Authority has quietly started asking Calgarians how much they’d be willing to pay to park outside their homes.

As the Sun first reported last month, the question comes near the end of a residential parking survey found on calgaryparking.com, which opens with innocuous questions about applying for permits online, and whether permits help restrict non-resident vehicles.

But suddenly, question No. 8 asks you to put a monetary value on the asphalt outside your front door.

“Currently, the Residential Parking Permit program costs the CPA $1M each year to administer. In other Canadian municipalities, there is a fee for Residential Parking Permits. This ranges from $12 to $635 per year,” it reads.

“How much do you think the street space in front of your home is worth per year?”

Calgarians are then asked to tick a box, ranging from $10 to $25 a year, all the way up to “More than $101 a year.”

That’s some very specific detail for a question with no specific purpose, but Calgary Parking Authority boss Troy McLeod is adamant his department has no plans to start charging for the right to park outside your own home.

“We’re not putting it in our budget as a request at all, so no, we’re not looking for a new fee,” said McLeod, general manager of the CPA.

“The cost of the program is a million dollars a year for us to operate, but we are not seeking any new funding.”
So, the Calgary Parking Authority doesn't want to charge you for parking at home — got it.

But the reality is, this isn't the Calgary Parking Authority’s decision.

That responsibility lies with the 15 politicians who sit on city council.

Yes, the same crew in charge of your property taxes, user fees and utility payments, and the same group already collecting $27 million a year from the highly-lucrative parking authority as general revenue.

More ominously still, McLeod said the answer to question No. 8 is to be provided to the city’s Transportation Department, as part of a comprehensive city council review of the residential parking permit system.

Council asks, and chances are, they’ll expect to receive.
Given a city council that’s never seen a potential source of cash it didn’t like, it’s a pretty safe bet that Calgarians currently living in communities with residential parking restrictions will soon be paying for the same pass that’s currently free.

Given close to 75 separate residential parking zones in Calgary, containing thousands of homes, the parking crunch in crowded communities is an obvious coffer-filling opportunity for council.

“It’s a council decision — the policy is just something we help implement, and the zone is established by council,” said McLeod.

The communities with parking permit zones tend to be inner city, or those around busy retail areas or transit hubs: pretty much any neighbourhood where parking space is at a premium, due to demand.

But what was once a service offered gratis to ensure space was reserved for people living there will soon have a price tag attached, all thanks to the Calgary Parking Authority survey, which closes June 30.

“We know the city is undertaking a residential policy review, and so we wanted to see what information we could gather ahead of time, and then provide that information to the Transportation planners,” said McLeod.

From there, the buck stops with city council — and stopping in front of your home is sure to cost bucks aplenty.
So in Calgary, what would be some of the possible communities? Hillhurst, Bridgeland, Victoria Park, Connaught, Sunnyside, Scarboro, Cliff Bungalow, Inglewood, Sunalta, East Village, Eau Claire, West End, Downtown? Maybe even farther out?
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 1:42 PM
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Anywhere around the University and hospitals have parking permits. Also, I think Rosemont and Crescent Heights does. With increasing density, it won't be possible to "ensure homeowners have reserved space" so in those neighborhoods, maybe it makes sense. Somewhere like Rosemont? Not so much, but if the program costs, should residents cover at least the break even amount?
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 1:49 PM
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It completely makes sense. I thought people paid for this already - why the hell wouldn't they?
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
It completely makes sense. I thought people paid for this already - why the hell wouldn't they?
Calgary's current parking permit program - link including link to said survey in second paragraph. First two are free with the exception of two special permit areas in Bridgeland and Somerset.

Calgary's current parking zone map (link) - now what has to be noted is that a community like Mount Pleasant is listed as having parking zones but in reality, it's a very small portion of that community that actually has parking zone restrictions and that for the most part would be near SAIT..
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by speedog View Post
Calgary's current parking permit program - link including link to said survey in second paragraph. First two are free with the exception of two special permit areas in Bridgeland and Somerset.

Calgary's current parking zone map (link) - now what has to be noted is that a community like Mount Pleasant is listed as having parking zones but in reality, it's a very small portion of that community that actually has parking zone restrictions and that for the most part would be near SAIT..
I have no issue with charging for the privilege, but is it going to make people even more possessive of the spot in front of their house?

All most all properties have at least one on property spot even in the Mount Pleasant, most have the ability to park 2 vehicles. New properties all are coming with double car garages even on 25' lots.

One question, how are visitor permits handled in this situation? Are the homeowners charged for the permit?
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Full Mountain View Post
I have no issue with charging for the privilege, but is it going to make people even more possessive of the spot in front of their house?

All most all properties have at least one on property spot even in the Mount Pleasant, most have the ability to park 2 vehicles. New properties all are coming with double car garages even on 25' lots.

One question, how are visitor permits handled in this situation? Are the homeowners charged for the permit?
Visitor parking permits are currently free with the exception of two zones - all of your questions answered here.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 4:15 PM
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Visitor parking permits are currently free with the exception of two zones - all of your questions answered here.
I was wondering if they charge for the resident parking permits, will they charge for the visitor ones too?
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 4:18 PM
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One additional thought, my off street parking is accessed from a gravel alleyway, during this past winter I couldn't get into my parking stall with a car, it required a 4wd truck to make it in many days. This presents a challenge for most folks with only a car.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 4:40 PM
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One additional thought, my off street parking is accessed from a gravel alleyway, during this past winter I couldn't get into my parking stall with a car, it required a 4wd truck to make it in many days. This presents a challenge for most folks with only a car.
That's why Calgary is full of pickups - all those inner city folks!

I kid, I kid. But I don't really understand how lanes and alleys are supposed to work in a winter climate.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:19 PM
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It completely makes sense. I thought people paid for this already - why the hell wouldn't they?
The reason for the parking permit program due to some communities being more attractive to nonresident parkers than other areas. For example, no-one other than people visiting my neighbours or visiting my house has a reason to park on my street. However communities close to Hospitals, Schools, C-trains, etc. have an issue with nonresidents free loading from the free parking.

I would not support paid resident parking permits because the community did not advocate for or instigate the root cause of the parking problem. In this instance, I feel that increased enforcement of residential parking permit program would yield the same dollar amount and yet non directly affect the residents. Additional enforcement could also include fine escalation for repeat offenders (e.g. first infraction is $40, followed by increasing amounts for subsequent infractions on the plate. Finally lets bring in "Parking Wars" style of enforcement to impound and confiscate cars that have numerous unpaid fines.

Enforcing current Bylaws and Traffic Act sections for all residential streets would yield CPA additional funds they are looking receive. For example,
#1 tag and tow cars that are clearly inoperable after a complaint has been received (for the record CPA will not enforce inoperable vehicle prohibition unless the plate is not associated with a resident and the plate has expired).
#2: RV parked on City street and overnight commercial vehicle on residential street.
#3 Fine and tow vehicles that have clearly not been moved in 72 hours (example Snow from lastweek's storm has piled up around the vehicle).
#4 Non resident parking on continuous basis (the car registration and plate can be associated with the owner, CPA can check immediately if the vehicle registration is associated with a resident. Instances where the nonresident continuously parks in a particular residential zone, they can be fined for nonresident parking.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by freeweed View Post
That's why Calgary is full of pickups - all those inner city folks!

I kid, I kid. But I don't really understand how lanes and alleys are supposed to work in a winter climate.
Well, we've been in our current mid-50's bungalow for 18 years with a double rear garage on a gravel alley with sloped intersecting alleys at either end of the block and have only gotten stuck in the alley once in those 18 years. Over those 18 years we've mostly driven either FWD or RWD vehicles - people just have to learn how to operate their vehicle in deeper snow. The stuck vehicle was a RWD Chev Astro (I wasn't driving) which I got into and promptly got unstuck just by some manoeuvring and throttle control.

BTW, never have been a pick-up owner, never will be.

Last edited by speedog; May 27, 2014 at 5:24 PM. Reason: xxx
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  #12  
Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The reason for the parking permit program due to some communities being more attractive to nonresident parkers than other areas. For example, no-one other than people visiting my neighbours or visiting my house has a reason to park on my street. However communities close to Hospitals, Schools, C-trains, etc. have an issue with nonresidents free loading from the free parking.

I would not support paid resident parking permits because the community did not advocate for or instigate the root cause of the parking problem. In this instance, I feel that increased enforcement of residential parking permit program would yield the same dollar amount and yet non directly affect the residents. Additional enforcement could also include fine escalation for repeat offenders (e.g. first infraction is $40, followed by increasing amounts for subsequent infractions on the plate. Finally lets bring in "Parking Wars" style of enforcement to impound and confiscate cars that have numerous unpaid fines.

Enforcing current Bylaws and Traffic Act sections for all residential streets would yield CPA additional funds they are looking receive. For example,
#1 tag and tow cars that are clearly inoperable after a complaint has been received (for the record CPA will not enforce inoperable vehicle prohibition unless the plate is not associated with a resident and the plate has expired).
#2: RV parked on City street and overnight commercial vehicle on residential street.
#3 Fine and tow vehicles that have clearly not been moved in 72 hours (example Snow from last week's storm has piled up around the vehicle).
#4 Non resident parking on continuous basis (the car registration and plate can be associated with the owner, CPA can check immediately if the vehicle registration is associated with a resident. Instances where the nonresident continuously parks in a particular residential zone, they can be fined for nonresident parking.
Great ideas but it's easier (and probably more economical) for the CPA just to have their camera cars cruise streets and automatically dole out tickets.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:29 PM
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So what you're saying is that it's a non-issue and there's no reason to cover the front streets with cars just because it's winter.

This used to happen to me in Silver Springs, and we had a paved back lane, damnit. Learn to drive people.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The reason for the parking permit program due to some communities being more attractive to nonresident parkers than other areas. For example, no-one other than people visiting my neighbours or visiting my house has a reason to park on my street. However communities close to Hospitals, Schools, C-trains, etc. have an issue with nonresidents free loading from the free parking.
Those last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. If there's no reason, there's no problem. If there's a problem, then they have a reason.

However, this all boils down to the assumption that on-street parking was ever built or designed for local residents only. Some people are 100% convinced in that, some people 0%. I'd actually put myself somewhere in the middle - but much like traffic complaints in general, I don't have a lot of sympathy for residents here. If you live close to popular amenities, expect traffic and parking issues. That's how cities work.

I'd rather we move away from Balkanizing our neighbourhoods the way I've seen some places move in the past. Besides, this kind of thinking is at the core of NIMBY - omg, build something and I'll have parking problems! Perhaps if parking is a concern for a person, they should purchase property that has parking on it? Calgary isn't exactly Tokyo here, there are plenty of places in even the most dense communities to park off-street.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The reason for the parking permit program due to some communities being more attractive to nonresident parkers than other areas. For example, no-one other than people visiting my neighbours or visiting my house has a reason to park on my street. However communities close to Hospitals, Schools, C-trains, etc. have an issue with nonresidents free loading from the free parking.

I would not support paid resident parking permits because the community did not advocate for or instigate the root cause of the parking problem. In this instance, I feel that increased enforcement of residential parking permit program would yield the same dollar amount and yet non directly affect the residents. Additional enforcement could also include fine escalation for repeat offenders (e.g. first infraction is $40, followed by increasing amounts for subsequent infractions on the plate. Finally lets bring in "Parking Wars" style of enforcement to impound and confiscate cars that have numerous unpaid fines.

Enforcing current Bylaws and Traffic Act sections for all residential streets would yield CPA additional funds they are looking receive. For example,
#1 tag and tow cars that are clearly inoperable after a complaint has been received (for the record CPA will not enforce inoperable vehicle prohibition unless the plate is not associated with a resident and the plate has expired).
#2: RV parked on City street and overnight commercial vehicle on residential street.
#3 Fine and tow vehicles that have clearly not been moved in 72 hours (example Snow from lastweek's storm has piled up around the vehicle).
#4 Non resident parking on continuous basis (the car registration and plate can be associated with the owner, CPA can check immediately if the vehicle registration is associated with a resident. Instances where the nonresident continuously parks in a particular residential zone, they can be fined for nonresident parking.
I don't have a problem with charging for permits: you are using a public space and there is an obvious cost attached to that that someone should pay for. If it is assumed that residents get priority than pay for permits is the way to go; otherwise pay zones would suffice.

But I do agree enforcement can easily be beefed up. We had two cars tickets and 1 towed during the Lilac Fest, all parked in the alley taking private spots and blocking the lane-way. Remember: this is an alley, there is no legal place to leave your car at all unless you have a spot. I counted around 25 cars in the alley illegally, and countless more in other alleys, no-parking zones and so on.

The only reason those that got ticketed and towed is pure luck that the parking guy happened to be amicable to us flagging him down while stuck in traffic nearby and coming over instead of the hundred other places he was aiming for that day. That's it.

If CPA went all out at Lilac Fest they could have made many thousands and thousands in fees. But there is no fear of enforcement so no one gives a shit where they park and how inconvenient they are being to people living in the area. They should use every single dollar they make to hire more parking patrol guys until the idea of illegal parking is a thing of the past. Right now they only catch such a low percentage of the total, they might as well be considered conservationist; preserving the population of the illegal parkers as if it's a good thing.

I would be fine with free or timed parking if it was actually enforced and had significant ramification so people actually learn to be better parkers. Park in a bus zone? Immediate tow + $1000 fine. Park in a no-parking zone/alley? Immediate tow + $1000 fine.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:41 PM
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Those last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. If there's no reason, there's no problem. If there's a problem, then they have a reason.

However, this all boils down to the assumption that on-street parking was ever built or designed for local residents only. Some people are 100% convinced in that, some people 0%. I'd actually put myself somewhere in the middle - but much like traffic complaints in general, I don't have a lot of sympathy for residents here. If you live close to popular amenities, expect traffic and parking issues. That's how cities work.

I'd rather we move away from Balkanizing our neighbourhoods the way I've seen some places move in the past. Besides, this kind of thinking is at the core of NIMBY - omg, build something and I'll have parking problems! Perhaps if parking is a concern for a person, they should purchase property that has parking on it? Calgary isn't exactly Tokyo here, there are plenty of places in even the most dense communities to park off-street.
I agree with this.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 5:42 PM
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Add in handicapped spots to that list. While I'm very much the person to point out that 18 empty handicapped spots in front of the zoo, where you're gonna walk for several hours, is kinda silly - I fully understand the actual needs of these things and nothing pisses me off more than abusers.

Agree with the rest of your post in general. We don't enforce parking very well here. Just tickets and revenue generation.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cage View Post
The reason for the parking permit program due to some communities being more attractive to nonresident parkers than other areas. For example, no-one other than people visiting my neighbours or visiting my house has a reason to park on my street. However communities close to Hospitals, Schools, C-trains, etc. have an issue with nonresidents free loading from the free parking.

I would not support paid resident parking permits because the community did not advocate for or instigate the root cause of the parking problem. In this instance, I feel that increased enforcement of residential parking permit program would yield the same dollar amount and yet non directly affect the residents. Additional enforcement could also include fine escalation for repeat offenders (e.g. first infraction is $40, followed by increasing amounts for subsequent infractions on the plate. Finally lets bring in "Parking Wars" style of enforcement to impound and confiscate cars that have numerous unpaid fines.

Enforcing current Bylaws and Traffic Act sections for all residential streets would yield CPA additional funds they are looking receive. For example,
#1 tag and tow cars that are clearly inoperable after a complaint has been received (for the record CPA will not enforce inoperable vehicle prohibition unless the plate is not associated with a resident and the plate has expired).
#2: RV parked on City street and overnight commercial vehicle on residential street.
#3 Fine and tow vehicles that have clearly not been moved in 72 hours (example Snow from lastweek's storm has piled up around the vehicle).
#4 Non resident parking on continuous basis (the car registration and plate can be associated with the owner, CPA can check immediately if the vehicle registration is associated with a resident. Instances where the nonresident continuously parks in a particular residential zone, they can be fined for nonresident parking.
Re: #2 - I get the reason this rule exists but seems heavy handed to ban it completely. I had a neighbor growing up that managed to get a trailer ticketed after only being on the street for less than an hour. There are times when a small commercial vehicle (pick up, etc.) would need to be parked on the street at night, I do it when I need to leave early the next day for the field or am returning the vehicle the next morning following a trip. Same goes for a camper trailer (not unhooked mind you) to load up for a weekend or the be able to get a early start the next day.

#4 - Careful you don't end up sweeping up students in this, they typically leave the address of registration at a permanent location during their post secondary education and likely wouldn't have gone through the effort and cost to change their insurance and D/L.
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 6:56 PM
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Those last 2 sentences directly contradict each other. If there's no reason, there's no problem. If there's a problem, then they have a reason.

However, this all boils down to the assumption that on-street parking was ever built or designed for local residents only. Some people are 100% convinced in that, some people 0%. I'd actually put myself somewhere in the middle - but much like traffic complaints in general, I don't have a lot of sympathy for residents here. If you live close to popular amenities, expect traffic and parking issues. That's how cities work.

I'd rather we move away from Balkanizing our neighbourhoods the way I've seen some places move in the past. Besides, this kind of thinking is at the core of NIMBY - omg, build something and I'll have parking problems! Perhaps if parking is a concern for a person, they should purchase property that has parking on it? Calgary isn't exactly Tokyo here, there are plenty of places in even the most dense communities to park off-street.
I agree, additionally for me parking naturally slows traffic something seems to be a recurring issue
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Old Posted May 27, 2014, 7:02 PM
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Great ideas but it's easier (and probably more economical) for the CPA just to have their camera cars cruise streets and automatically dole out tickets.
Resident permits are associated with a plate, but visitor spots are not. Who ends up with a ticket? Your uncle and aunt who are in town visiting for the week? While the vehicle down the street that hasn't moved in a year gets free parking? The camera cars work because of ParkPlus, in places where you don't have ParkPlus in place it's mighty hard to enforce without someone walking up to the vehicle and checking for a permit.

If the visitor permits were rear mounted like the resident permits you might have something using machine vision.
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