DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by mr1138

Just this morning, a statistic came up in a class of mine that I remember seeing last fall. A study from UCLA showed that many NIMBYs simply don't like development when they think about the developers making profit.

There seems to be a pathological rage directed towards real estate developers in particular for making profit. I don’t really understand it. Everyone in private industry wants to make a profit. You don’t see this kind of vitriol directed towards soybean farmers, for instance. When times are good for real esate I think it’s reasonable for developers to make a healthy profit; speculative real estate construction is highly risky. We want those developers and contractors to be able to weather the downturns so they are still around during the next cycle—something that didn’t quite happen during the Great Recession and is adding to the current housing crisis.

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

I completely agree that gentrification is a legitimate issue

Gentrification is certainly a thing—but IMO it’s one symptom of a broader, extremely complex set of historical decisions and ongoing policy. Much of the anti-gentrification rhetoric misses the mark, in my view. Attacking the symptom (by limiting new development) is likely to worsen displacement. Making better decisions about urban land use city/state wide is going to be more helpful to historically underprivileged residents than pursuing a futile, identity based attempt to fossilize a neighborhood.

I can think of several lovely neighborhood Facebook groups where Mr. or Ms. Bulldurham would feel right at home.

[Denver Dweller]

https://businessden.com/2019/02/13/a...f72a-147998669

[DenverPoke]

1999 Chestnut...wow that turned out poorly. The black version wasn’t bad but this is just awful.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

[Ich]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

1999 Chestnut...wow that turned out poorly. The black version wasn’t bad but this is just awful.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

I don’t think it’s that bad. I used to hate it but my apartment faces its (I live at Alara) and it’s grown on me. Looks cool at night and yes i wish it was grey. BUT I think if they added a cool urban art mural on the big white wall facing 20th, it would be really cool! The job they did on the fire house is awesome. Love the all glass section and I think if they build a cool taller building on the empty lot next to it, it won’t stick out or look as “bad”

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://businessden.com/2019/02/13/a...f72a-147998669

That's got to be a record profit for a wholesale deal.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

There seems to be a pathological rage directed towards real estate developers in particular for making profit. I don’t really understand it...

Right on the mark. While NIMBYs have always been around, it seems that in this development cycle those same NIMBYs have also become fed up with real estate developers making ANY money. I dabble in large scale affordable housing and recently, got criticized as gentrifying a neighborhood with desperately needed affordable housing - which is essentially rent restricted FOREVER.

To a larger extent this anti-money making attitude seems to be rising within the general population within the last decade. Look at the push back Amazon is getting in Queens for their 1/2HQ2. If you can't put A BUNCH of high paying jobs with a PLETHORA of community reinvestment, local job training, and university investment at the center of a 20 million person city, where can those high paying jobs go?!?!

Case in point, the City of Denver just issued an RFQ for 4400 Lincoln Street and it's ONLY open to non-profit developers - and just to give you a giggle, the RFQs states that particular consideration should be given to parking-because that's obviously a great way to stimulate interest in a project (fyi the City has had to re-release many RFQs and Ps over the last several years due to LACK of interest!

UGH - I blame billionaires, they've turned americans into a bunch of socialists who hate anyone making money!

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

I completely agree that gentrification is a legitimate issue, but the thing with this development is, is that it seems like the developer is trying to address the issues that come along with gentrifying. He is adding jobs to the local area that really need it, and hes adding affordable housing. Its not like the developer is saying "screw you" and trying to push people out. It seems like the developer is trying to help a struggling community.

what does the developer stand to make? big flipping deal if he puts ten units up for a smaller price.

this developer isn't taking on some dilapidated block or anything. that body shop there hires lots of poor local kids, btw. young black kids getting a shot.
why not put in a ferrari dealer in the spot too. you know, more jobs! the local ignorant poor minority folks should love the job providing here!

so the developer takes our public streets and cashes in and the best i can hear from the board here is how people are irrational about developers making money.

it might have something to do with developers making millions and millions off of bullshit claims and leaving the real people behind. it's not really that complicated. i can think of several foxnews shows that many posters here would love. trump and kushner, two of america's top real estate developers, btw.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

No reason to argue with him, he apparently speaks for the entire neighborhood community and his neighbors seem to want absolutely nothing to do with new jobs, nicer affordable homes, improved streets. Its awful if you think about it, why would anyone want their neighborhood improved.

I suppose less fortunate neighborhoods aren't suppose to have improvements to their neighborhood. I mean why would they want it? It will add value to their personal equity and wealth, their homes that they bought as an investment would sore higher like a positive stock market- making the investment a success, give them more diversity in options of shopping within their neighborhood. Sounds pretty shi**y to me.

Lets all rally around and make sure everyone is fired for letting a sprouts come in, I mean, its only going to provided jobs for a neighborhood that could use it.

And to top it all off, they are even going to allow a project that will add an additional 20 more units of affordable housing in a brand new development!

tell me more about all of these supposed jobs we're gonna get from a sprouts. near minimum wage in an unaffordable neighborhood is exactly what the poor people need. wow! denver's very long history with which supremacy has no bounds.

[roshea999]

Originally Posted by Ich

I don’t think it’s that bad. I used to hate it but my apartment faces its (I live at Alara) and it’s grown on me. Looks cool at night and yes i wish it was grey. BUT I think if they added a cool urban art mural on the big white wall facing 20th, it would be really cool! The job they did on the fire house is awesome. Love the all glass section and I think if they build a cool taller building on the empty lot next to it, it won’t stick out or look as “bad”

I live in the Metro just down the street and I'm disappointed with how the hotel turned out. The fire house looks great and I like the glass section - but the all white is ugly.

A brick facade/structure would have been amazing - similar to the Grand down Chestnut.

Very curious to see what comes of the land just to the west of the hotel.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by Curtis Park

I hesitate to debate since I tend to use facts and you appear to use opinion. However, the developer is not taking the street, they legally purchased it. They are also improving the streets, making them safer for pedestrians (white and black if you're concerned). The current layout is designed to get as many people through the neighborhood in cars. The new layout will slow traffic and make it better for people IN the neighborhood.



Construction of homes and grocery stores should not be decided based on the people who used to live in a community, rather those that live and will live there. The fact is that Cole is a predominately white neighborhood. And that has nothing to do with a grocery store. Economics, not race are what's driving this project.

You sound a lot like Lisa Calderon. We know what you hate, but tell us what you're for.

obviously economics are driving this. rich developers stand to make millions no doubt and the rich donor class stands to keep albus in the game by fast tracking the ever changing demographics in the area. it's the hancock playbook to a tee.

give lipservice to the local minorities by getting three or four cheaper houses in place, meanwhile i just saw 8 affordable units go on the market on my street last month. oops! it's a scam and the white power class moving in to the area is all too happy to see it happpen.

what am i for? i'm for the the people who don't have the power. just like jesus.


and about the roads, good god, stop lying every chance you get. you can't just buy a street. you need albus to help.

[bulldurhamer]

the next person that says working a minimum wage job at sprouts is some economic boon to the neighborhood probably deserves a kick to the nuts.

[Mountain man]

Good gosh you guys, you have officially awoken the forums nut

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

That's got to be a record profit for a wholesale deal.

I assumed it wasn't arm's length although it's possible there was a year option whose timing was exquisite but my money is on the former.

Originally Posted by laniroj

UGH - I blame billionaires, they've turned americans into a bunch of socialists who hate anyone making money!

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

When passion is aroused logic evaporates and talking points proliferate.

Many non-profits make a ton of money, even if through donations and have high paid executives.

Technology is like automation on steroids and it has greatly remade the landscape for better and for worse. For the average Joe and Juanita it's mostly survival mode. In the case of Amazon it's tech and tech-based automation.

Speaking of socialism it's the one thing that could get Trump elected again; hopefully not but in politics all things are possible, little is rational.

[bulldurhamer]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Right on the mark. While NIMBYs have always been around, it seems that in this development cycle those same NIMBYs have also become fed up with real estate developers making ANY money. I dabble in large scale affordable housing and recently, got criticized as gentrifying a neighborhood with desperately needed affordable housing - which is essentially rent restricted FOREVER.

To a larger extent this anti-money making attitude seems to be rising within the general population within the last decade. Look at the push back Amazon is getting in Queens for their 1/2HQ2. If you can't put A BUNCH of high paying jobs with a PLETHORA of community reinvestment, local job training, and university investment at the center of a 20 million person city, where can those high paying jobs go?!?!

Case in point, the City of Denver just issued an RFQ for 4400 Lincoln Street and it's ONLY open to non-profit developers - and just to give you a giggle, the RFQs states that particular consideration should be given to parking-because that's obviously a great way to stimulate interest in a project (fyi the City has had to re-release many RFQs and Ps over the last several years due to LACK of interest!

UGH - I blame billionaires, they've turned americans into a bunch of socialists who hate anyone making money!

Amazon should consider paying all of their employees. Again, why should we care about some big paying job for some asshole kid who certainly doesn't deserve that much money when https://www.latimes.com/business/tec...207-story.html

they steal the tips from their drivers who they can't even have the decency to officially hire. sorry, no benefits for you, and guess what, we're stealing you tips too!

you're right to blame the greedy upper class. they aren't fucking paying the people making this country work. instead they're stealing more and more as each tax "cut" passes.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

so the developer takes our public streets and cashes in and the best i can hear from the board here is how people are irrational about developers making money.

This is a street that bisects a neighborhood block and provides commuters an easier way to fly through the neighborhood on their way to downtown. The neighborhood isn't losing anything by having this street removed. What's the big problem here?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

Amazon should consider paying all of their employees. Again, why should we care about some big paying job for some asshole kid who certainly doesn't deserve that much money when https://www.latimes.com/business/tec...207-story.html

they steal the tips from their drivers who they can't even have the decency to officially hire. sorry, no benefits for you, and guess what, we're stealing you tips too!

you're right to blame the greedy upper class. they aren't fucking paying the people making this country work. instead they're stealing more and more as each tax "cut" passes.

$18 to $25 per hour is solid. In the restaurant business in Arizona IIRC $2 of one's tips can count towards the minimum wage. It is what it is; you make too much of today's quirks as if they are any different from times past. Different quirks, results the same. Btw, those independent contractor drivers are able to deduct 58 cents per mile so if they're smart they can make out nicely on that angle.

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by Mountain man

Good gosh you guys, you have officially awoken the forums nut

His ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to his newsletter.

[TakeFive]

Amazon cancels plans to build New York headquarters

In its statement, Amazon said it has no plans to "reopen the HQ2 search at this time." Instead, it plans to move forward with its office expansions in Virginia as well as Nashville, where it is building a new hub expected to employ 5,000 people

[TakeFive]

Texas developer plans multi-million dollar condo project in Five Points
Feb 14, 2019 By Andrew Dodson – Reporter, Denver Business Journal

A Texas developer new to the Denver market has plans for a multi-story condo project in the Five Points neighborhood where a handful of other residential projects are underway.

And it doesn’t plan to stop there: The developer hopes to close two more deals this year and another five in 2020.

Who? What? Where?

Austin-based PSW Real Estate, an urban infill real estate development firm that has investments in its hometown, Dallas and Seattle, closed on a piece of land currently being used as a commercial parking lot at 2137 Glenarm Place last month for $3.75 million, according to city property records.

Chris Auxier, director of acquisitions and development for PSW’s Denver operations, told Denver Business Journal the firm is planning at least a five-story condo project that could be as high as eight stories. The final size and scope of the project will depend on conversations with the neighborhood, which is located in the Clements Historic District where a handful of three-story homes have been built.

The article also mentions they have interest in Sunnyside, Hilltop and Arvada.

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

the next person that says working a minimum wage job at sprouts is some economic boon to the neighborhood probably deserves a kick to the nuts.

Ok, so a Sprouts hiring local people is bad but the body shop hiring poor local kids is indispensable?