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  #81  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
I used to think that I'd love to live in some sort of megalopolis. Then, I moved to a large city (although by the standards of the country, it's a truck stop) and I realized that I fucking hate some of the shit that comes with huge numbers of people.

It definitely depends on the culture in which the city is located. If it's culturally acceptable to endlessly blare your horn at 5 in the morning because somebody is blocking your car, you'll do it. In big cities there's always some asshole doing something that pisses you off. The locals have grown up with it and learned to tune it out but I can't do that.
You're right about the culture. Even between my two favourite cities, Barcelona is noticeably noisier. People love to drive fast and are liberal with their horns. Berlin is downright pastoral for a city of millions because the number one pastime is drinking in parks. But both cities are definitely quieter than Winnipeg because people don't incessantly drive pickups, Harleys, and semis everywhere for no reason.

In my limited experience in China, what you describe seems like more of a smaller city (<10 million) thing. In Shanghai they manage a kind of chill indifference to the obscene amounts of drama going on around them. The upshot is that when people honk or yell, everyone ignores them and it accomplishes nothing, so they've collectively piped down a bit.

A little ways away in Suzhou people just seem to tape their car horns on.
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  #82  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 7:07 PM
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Los Angeles and Jakarta are too big for me, but I'd gladly live in Tokyo or New York.

Size - or lack thereof - comes with certain inherent advantages and disadvantages, but it's up the city on how those are applied. Sprawling giants like LA, and even slightly smaller ones like Houston and Dallas have all the negative qualities that come with high populations - congestion, long travel times, pollution, separation from nature - without the bustling, monumental urbanity that only comes from having millions of packed-in inhabitants and makes a place like New York so singular (and while they do still have their urban charms, certainly, I don't think they're enough to compensate).

Meanwhile, developing megacities like Jakarta or Dhaka just have too much vibrancy to the point where they're chaotic and inescapable. They don't have the infrastructure, planning, and green space that makes a place like Tokyo so livable despite it's size and density.

Likewise for smaller cities and rural areas, they have their own set of positive and negative attributes. But ones that manage to have a sufficient level of small-scaled urbanity in naturally beautiful settings without being too isolated or lacking too many amenities are also singularly great places. I would be very happy on the Mediterranean coast; Northern Ontario not so much.
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  #83  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
...quieter than Winnipeg because people don't incessantly drive pickups, Harleys, and semis everywhere for no reason.
When I am king, the first against the wall will be the 60-year-old Harley riders who want everyone within earshot to know what "badasses" they are.

I find my tolerance for unsolicited sounds/noise continues to diminish as I age (I'm now the oldest I've even been). Especially working in a home office. Funny thing about noise, though. Turns out living in the countryside isn't necessarily quieter than being in a cozy neighbourhood in a city. At least in Canada. A few years ago on a whim my wife and I had a look at a charming old country house for sale in the wilds far enough south of Hamilton as to be very affordable. We left a bit shell-shocked at how very loud each and every pickup truck motoring along the concessions were.

The pastoral silence would only last about ten seconds before the next combustion engine roared by. It was a serious eye-opener. By contrast, the cars never drive so fast on the street where we live in our smallish city, and we're far enough away from the main drag that we don't hear its constant hum.

Interestingly enough, you get a similar effect in Bangkok. The traffic is insane, as it is in all Asian cities, but diverting into the labyrinthine "sois" (lanes) brings relative peace and quiet.
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:45 PM
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Similar effect in Barcelona. I'll never forget how serene it was in and around Park Güell, but then walking down the street to the closest major thoroughfare the traffic noise was deafening.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.41014...7i13312!8i6656
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:51 PM
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When I am king, the first against the wall will be the 60-year-old Harley riders who want everyone within earshot to know what "badasses" they are.

.
I'll happily be your lieutenant for that purge. (And I am not really that sensitive to ambient noise.)
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  #86  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post

I find my tolerance for unsolicited sounds/noise continues to diminish as I age (I'm now the oldest I've even been). Especially working in a home office. Funny thing about noise, though. Turns out living in the countryside isn't necessarily quieter than being in a cozy neighbourhood in a city. At least in Canada. A few years ago on a whim my wife and I had a look at a charming old country house for sale in the wilds far enough south of Hamilton as to be very affordable. We left a bit shell-shocked at how very loud each and every pickup truck motoring along the concessions were.

The pastoral silence would only last about ten seconds before the next combustion engine roared by. It was a serious eye-opener. By contrast, the cars never drive so fast on the street where we live in our smallish city, and we're far enough away from the main drag that we don't hear its constant hum.

Interestingly enough, you get a similar effect in Bangkok. The traffic is insane, as it is in all Asian cities, but diverting into the labyrinthine "sois" (lanes) brings relative peace and quiet.
Why do you always write things that I think.

It's true that "in the country" can mean living in the middle of the woods, and these places tend to be quiet.

OTOH if living in the country means living in a rural community, village or very small town, in a lot of cases the main or only street also doubles as a provincial highway. And if there is no bypass (as is usual) then a whole bunch of traffic goes through the town.

A couple of years ago my family was visiting relatives in a tiny small town in the Maritimes. We stayed in an RV behind the house. There was no AC in the RV AFAIK so we slept with the windows open. (It's the Maritimes - it doesn't often get that hot at night anyway.)

In any event, we were on the main street of a very small place. It was also a tertiary provincial highway. Think of a highway number in the 300s. I had never noticed that it was that busy - it's an economically moribund region and a bit off the beaten track even. But the traffic noise at night - from transport trucks especially. You couldn't have imagined how bad it was.
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  #87  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Similar effect in Barcelona. I'll never forget how serene it was in and around Park Güell, but then walking down the street to the closest major thoroughfare the traffic noise was deafening.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.41014...7i13312!8i6656
Yes, exactly. Traffic noise in Barcelona is really jarring because you get so used to the peace and quiet on its many lanes and side streets that when you do get to a busy street the sound is downright explosive. Their broad avenues are also noisy, but they're lined with so many trees and street furniture, they do a good job of muffling it.

And that's the thing about cities. They make a lot of noise, but they're great at muffling it too. I enjoy more quiet living on a downtown residential street than I ever did living a mile from a highway in suburbia.

And I'm all down for helping you guys round up and shoot Harley drivers, but I don't know why we can't have noise ordinances that deal with them peaceably, already. Electric cars are on their way to normal, so I'm not sure why we should have to suffer the din of combustion engines any longer, whether they're in pickups, Harleys, or Hondas.
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  #88  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
And I'm all down for helping you guys round up and shoot Harley drivers, but I don't know why we can't have noise ordinances that deal with them peaceably, already. Electric cars are on their way to normal, so I'm not sure why we should have to suffer the din of combustion engines any longer, whether they're in pickups, Harleys, or Hondas.


It's basically look-at-me peacockery cloaked in safety jargon. You'd really have to make the fines hurt to bring that annoying practice to an end.
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post


It's basically look-at-me peacockery cloaked in safety jargon. You'd really have to make the fines hurt to bring that annoying practice to an end.
IIRC, allowable noise in urban areas is based on the noise made by transit buses, around 85 decibels. Why not a two tier system, that buses get a let, but cars and motorcycles are held to a more stringent standard?
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Why do you always write things that I think.
It's nice to have your impressions confirmed by others. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biguc View Post
And I'm all down for helping you guys round up and shoot Harley drivers, but I don't know why we can't have noise ordinances that deal with them peaceably, already. Electric cars are on their way to normal, so I'm not sure why we should have to suffer the din of combustion engines any longer, whether they're in pickups, Harleys, or Hondas.
I'm not sure if I've written this on here before, because I tell this anecdote to all and sundry, but back in the 1990s I once got a ticket when the muffler on my beater 1983 Toyota Tercel developed a hole. I protested to the cop that I was going to get it fixed the next day, but he just shook his head and said this:

"It'd be pretty wild if we were all driving around like this, wouldn't it?"

And wrote me a $150 ticket, or however much it was. I just recall it wasn't cheap. The asshole. Meanwhile they do nothing about the Harleys that sound ten times worse than a hole in a muffler sounds.

Harleys are legally too loud, but the cops do nothing. Why not? I've heard from several people that it's because a lot of cops like and ride them. Don't know how true that is.
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted May 1, 2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
It's nice to have your impressions confirmed by others. Thanks.


I'm not sure if I've written this on here before, because I tell this anecdote to all and sundry, but back in the 1990s I once got a ticket when the muffler on my beater 1983 Toyota Tercel developed a hole. I protested to the cop that I was going to get it fixed the next day, but he just shook his head and said this:

"It'd be pretty wild if we were all driving around like this, wouldn't it?"

And wrote me a $150 ticket, or however much it was. I just recall it wasn't cheap. The asshole. Meanwhile they do nothing about the Harleys that sound ten times worse than a hole in a muffler sounds.

Harleys are legally too loud, but the cops do nothing. Why not? I've heard from several people that it's because a lot of cops like and ride them. Don't know how true that is.
Must because people who ride Harleys are such badasses, the cops are scared.

You don't want to mess with this guy. He gets really ornery when his arthritis flares up. Every time he has to stand.

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  #92  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Why do you always write things that I think.

It's true that "in the country" can mean living in the middle of the woods, and these places tend to be quiet.

OTOH if living in the country means living in a rural community, village or very small town, in a lot of cases the main or only street also doubles as a provincial highway. And if there is no bypass (as is usual) then a whole bunch of traffic goes through the town.

A couple of years ago my family was visiting relatives in a tiny small town in the Maritimes. We stayed in an RV behind the house. There was no AC in the RV AFAIK so we slept with the windows open. (It's the Maritimes - it doesn't often get that hot at night anyway.)

In any event, we were on the main street of a very small place. It was also a tertiary provincial highway. Think of a highway number in the 300s. I had never noticed that it was that busy - it's an economically moribund region and a bit off the beaten track even. But the traffic noise at night - from transport trucks especially. You couldn't have imagined how bad it was.
After reading alot of your posts over the year's Acajack I'm inclined to agree with you, xD you guys do think alike.

Last edited by Tosin007; May 2, 2017 at 5:25 AM.
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 5:32 AM
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Thanks! Sorry about some of the spelling and cryptic phrases early in that post ("see the same as shoes"???! ). I'm posting from my phone and SwiftKey has a really dumb mind of its own. I don't know why predictive text still can't pull off what spellcheck in office '97 did with ease.


Anyway, this makes me wonder where the change from a small city to a midsized city starts. My idea is that it's around 200-300k, where cities actually need to start planning responsibly.
Np Man anytime! & haha spelling? Trust me when I say I'm alot worse, people on these boards give me a much harder time with that.
(To be fair I could work on it a bit more though if I really cared enough).
& haha lol nice anology I get what u mean by the Office 97 reference. .
& yeah ur probably right, if that's the Criteria then I guess Abbotsford is nearly a Mid-Sized City, & Kelowna, Regina, Barrie, Sherbrooke, & St. John's are all there. Cities like Sudbury, Kingston, Red Deer County, Moncton (Are all in the Fringes). I sort of Consider Guelph as Mid-Sized not for the Metro Population but for the Surrounding Wellington County Ontario Population.
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 5:38 AM
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In my case, I know for sure that Sherbrooke is a great size (200,000).

I was in a city of ~12,000 for a few years and that was a great size 'cause there was Trois-Rivières ~30 minutes away. I'm currently in a city of 17,500 and that's also a great size 'cause Orlando is ~30 minutes away.

I think I need to have a city of, at the very least, some 150,000 within reasonable driving distance.

However, max size is kind of irrelevant. I don't dislike Lévis at all (~150,000 people, IIRC) but the amount of people on the other shore of the river doesn't really matter. Living on the edge of Montreal would be the same thing - very acceptable.

I wouldn't live in a core Montreal neighborhood though - too dense and crowded. So I'm guessing that by these standards, Montreal is "too big". However, there are equally dense and crowded neighborhoods in Quebec City, yet I have to admit I find it acceptably sized as I live in Greater Quebec City (Lévis) at the moment when back home and find it okay.

It's kind of hard to answer the question, because if any city can get disqualified for having some neighborhoods that are too "big city" for your tastes, you're quickly running into a logic problem.

Plenty of people live in Metro NYC who find the densest parts of NYC too urban and crowded for their tastes... so these New Yorkers just choose to live in fringe areas. There's no city too big, unless we posit that one must absolutely live in the 'hood with the most people and crime and pollution for the purpose of answering the question, in which case we're probably all going to prefer tiny villages.

Also, while Sherbrooke is the perfect size, St. John's I could never live in - way too small because it's way too isolated. From Sherbrooke, I sometimes go to other places; if I can't do that, then... I don't know what's the minimum city size I'd need. I don't even know there's a size that would work, 'cause even Montreal or Toronto on an island in the middle of the ocean would feel too isolated and remote for me.
It's funny that you bring up the 150,000 number. I just noticed that most Canadian's live in Cities Between 140,000 to 330,000 In Population. (This is the Range in which most Canadian Cities lie), & so even on the Statistics Canada Thread, I just brought that up a little while ago.
I agree with you about St. John's too! (& Thunder Bay also merits the same consideration when it comes to isolation).
I also agree that to an extent though size is fairly relative, it's all about "Congestion" & density/ crowded areas/ Urbanity.
This is the make or break of a City. (Regardless of size).
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 5:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Tosin,

Terrorism threats exist in safe places like Canada simply because people (voters) are stupid and emotional. The media sensationalizes terrorist acts as it triggers emotions in many people and leads to more viewers (advertising revenue), and politicians know they can win elections by leveraging the threat perceptions and emotions of the gullible and naive public. Humanity is generaly not logical or well informed but those who profit and capitalize on the nature of the world are generally logical. If you understand that, you will understand why the world works as it does.



I have given up convincing you of anything. You don't know what a rational case for something looks like. You are garbling all sorts of different things and creating a very messy thought process. I can't reason against that kind of non-sensical approach.

You should listen to mistercorporate. What you can't seem to understand is that terrorism is a very minor threat. Look at the stats, not the BS that comes out of reactive politicians and governments seeking some other end by supporting the idea of the boogieman: things like security spending and information gathering. Remember the Cold War? Nuclear war, a real threat, but also one used to scare-monger western democracies into footing the bill for an endless arms race. In the end, the scale of the Red Threat proved massively overblown.

One very last time: terrorism is a stupid thing to consider when judging a place. It's purely emotional, not rational. It ranks with things like a chemical spill, a plane crashing on your head, an earthquake, a random murder . . . the list never ends. "Lock yourself in your basement and you will be safe - woops, nope, radon gas got ya!"

Instead, look at the worthy factors you control: air quality, overall crime rate, water quality, ease of travel, access to services, environmental quality (natural and built/designed), economic prospects related to your skill set, healthcare, education facilities.

And, an end note: if you ever get a chance you should audit a "reasoning, argument and epistemology" course in a philosophy department at your local university. Thinking and reasoning are skills that can be learned, practiced and honed. Try it.

And, a second end note: regarding your CanPopEstimates:
Tosin007 Is Back with His!
Canada Population Estimates May 1st, 2017: 36,662,114

This makes no sense. What does would be this: Tosin007 Is Back with His Canada Population Estimates! May 1st, 2017: 36,662,114


[And, a plea: to everyone else, shoot me if I get into another discussion with Tosin. Please.]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7322846.html
^"Sadiq Khan: London mayor says terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city".



Well there you go! Sounds like some people think it's what u would expect for living in a Big City just like I do.
& Here I thought everyone knew the London Mayor said this already. Lol it did make pretty big news all across Europe when he said it I'm sure.
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 7:07 AM
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Any tidbit from anyone anywhere does not make sound evidence, let alone an argument.

I asked to be shot didn't I?
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:45 AM
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7322846.html
^"Sadiq Khan: London mayor says terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city".



Well there you go! Sounds like some people think it's what u would expect for living in a Big City just like I do.
& Here I thought everyone knew the London Mayor said this already. Lol it did make pretty big news all across Europe when he said it I'm sure.
He means living with the irrational media-dricven hysteria associated with terror attacks, not the likelihood of dying. You have a better chance of choking to death from a budgie found in your fish and chips than dying from a terror attack in London.
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  #98  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:46 AM
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Any tidbit from anyone anywhere does not make sound evidence, let alone an argument.

I asked to be shot didn't I?
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  #99  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 10:47 AM
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It's funny that you bring up the 150,000 number. I just noticed that most Canadian's live in Cities Between 140,000 to 330,000 In Population. (This is the Range in which most Canadian Cities lie), & so even on the Statistics Canada Thread, I just brought that up a little while ago.
I agree with you about St. John's too! (& Thunder Bay also merits the same consideration when it comes to isolation).
I also agree that to an extent though size is fairly relative, it's all about "Congestion" & density/ crowded areas/ Urbanity.
This is the make or break of a City. (Regardless of size).
Interesting stat, whats the correspponding American equivalent of a city size range where the majority of Americans live in? And British or European?
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Old Posted May 2, 2017, 4:50 PM
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Interesting stat, whats the correspponding American equivalent of a city size range where the majority of Americans live in? And British or European?
Hmm not sure, I think most US Cities/ Metropolitan Areas Fall in the 2 Million Population Range. (Though I could be wrong though). :/
I'll probably do that study later. But yes I think it's an interesting stat though. Most People tend to prefer Cities of Certain sizes.
     
     
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