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  #2101  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 1:32 AM
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Weekday trips increased to an average of ... 112,100 MAX rides

Weekend ridership averaged ... 160,800 MAX trips

Are these correct?
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  #2102  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 2:04 AM
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How are "commuter trips vs. rides" and "boardings" computed/compared? What is the difference between these terms? The following are the stats for King County (Seattle) Metro:

During the month of April, Metro averaged 395,000 daily boardings on weekdays. Itís an increase of about 22,000 boardings a day over the average for the same month in 2007 ñ or, a 5.9 percent increase.

Park-and-ride lots are also seeing increased use. During the first three months of 2008, the 129 lots served by Metro accommodated almost 2,000 more vehicles a day. That equals a 13 percent increase in park-and-ride usage for the first quarter of 2008 compared to first quarter of 2007.


http://www.metrokc.gov/kcdot/transto...8.htm#feature1

Last edited by PacificNW; Jun 11, 2008 at 2:21 AM.
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  #2103  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 2:06 AM
philopdx philopdx is offline
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... and the gong goes KRRAAANG!
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  #2104  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 1:57 PM
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It was stated on MSNBC this morning that transit ridership (probably includes Sound Transit Bus and Commuter Rail) is up 28%.
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  #2105  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
Weekday trips increased to an average of ... 112,100 MAX rides

Weekend ridership averaged ... 160,800 MAX trips

Are these correct?
I think the weekend trips are probably Saturday and Sunday combined, whereas the weekday stat is an average for each weekday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
How are "commuter trips vs. rides" and "boardings" computed/compared? What is the difference between these terms?
"Boardings" (also called "unlinked passenger trips") count each time someone gets on a bus or train, regardless of whether or not they're transferring from another bus or train. I assume "commuter trips" is equivalent to "linked passenger trips" which counts a passenger's entire trip from starting point to destination as one trip, regardless of how many buses or trains they rode.
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  #2106  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 6:43 PM
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Right design. Wrong place.

I think the Market Bridge design is brilliant. But I don't see the need for it on the Willamette. The view crossing the Willamette downtown is one of Portland's most striking visual panoramas. The presence of shops on the bridge would only compromise this view and distract pedestrians and cyclists from some of Portland's most compelling scenery.

The Ponte Vecchio approach makes the most sense when trying to draw pedestrians across dead spots in the urban fabric.
The most obvious candidate for this treatment is I-405 between Downtown and Goose Hollow. I can imagine market-bridge-style caps on several streets that cross the 405. These have the potential to dramatically re-connect Downtown with Goose Hollow and to catalyze development in the West End.

Below are some views of the "I-670 cap" in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio. It spans what was once a long, forbidding, wind-swept freeway overpass. This rift in the urban streetscape had created a formidable pedestrian barrier between Downtown Columbus and the rapidly-developing Short North neighborhood. Completed in 2004, the cap has worked an urban-design miracle and North High Street now forms a seamless, pedestrian-friendly corridor where there had once been a steel and concrete canyon.

Picture something similar in Portland linking key downtown streets across I-405 to Goose Hollow.




Last edited by Flaneur; Jun 12, 2008 at 9:02 PM. Reason: images not loading
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  #2107  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 6:50 PM
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that guy stole my idea!? When we first started talking the MAX bridge on this forum I suggested creating a Ponte Vecchio type bridge. And I think it is a great idea to have a Ponte Vecchio/ pedestrian/ bicycle bridge further North around the Hawthorne bridge. It would be a wonderful spot for the year round Portland market. We support our farmers markets well throughout the city so I'm confident that a year round market would be supported in the heart of the river. It would also be a must see on every tourist's list while in Portland. Additionally, it does not have to be some cheesy Vegas vision like you guys are describing either. It could be Portland's unique take on having a market.
However, I don't think it should be combined with MAX. We can't have a draw bridge with MAX, we need to have MAX running as efficiently and quickly as possible. It is afterall a commuter train, not a tourist ride.
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  #2108  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 7:34 PM
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Non CRC related I-5/I-205/I-84 development

Portland is a green city, and we certainly loves us some transit. God knows I don't own a car.

But within the next 10 years we're going to have to start facing the reality that both I-84 and I-5 are woefully inadequate as trasnportation corridors within the city.

I know a lot of people within the city are concerned about global warming, yada yada yada. I get that. But I-5 is a huge transportation cooridor; it is almost laughable how the freeway drops to two lanes near the Rose Quarter.

At some point we've got to widen I-5 an provide better connection with I-84. Any solution to global warming/peak oil will make use of our current road system. There's too many trillions of dollars invested in it to think that the entire thing will be defunct in 30 years.

When are we going to see the city seriously look at our main freeway cooridors as opposed to mass transit? There are a certain type of person that isn't going to take public transit because no matter how affordable or direct you make it, it isn't convenient for them.

I fully support and applaud the work on the green line, the planning on the orange line, the WES (although commuter rail to city center would have made more sense IMO), etc. But we've got to stop kidding ourselves: Portland and it's surrounding suburbs are going to get too big too fast for us to not consider updating our inner-city freeways.
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  #2109  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonpdx View Post
We can't have a draw bridge with MAX, we need to have MAX running as efficiently and quickly as possible. It is afterall a commuter train, not a tourist ride.
If only trimet would realize that. Though it could be too late for max to be an effective, express commuter tool. Just my opinion tho.
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  #2110  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 7:51 PM
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The idea of a market bridge has been floating around PDX planning circles for nearly two decades. The guys at Path merely added the element to a bridge that's going to happen anyways. At one point, several years ago, there was even talk of adding retail space on the Burnside Bridge.
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  #2111  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:32 PM
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Thanks for the explanation. Are there transit authorities who count every boarding as a new passenger regardless if they are transferring from another bus, or light rail line? So, if a passenger catches 3 different modes of mass transit to get to their destination they are counted as 3 passengers/riders? If this is the case how can transit ridership increases/decreases/numbers be accurately compared with one another cities stats if transit agencies provide different types of calculations? Whew..does my question make sense?
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  #2112  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
Thanks for the explanation. Are there transit authorities who count every boarding as a new passenger regardless if they are transferring from another bus, or light rail line? So, if a passenger catches 3 different modes of mass transit to get to their destination they are counted as 3 passengers/riders? If this is the case how can transit ridership increases/decreases/numbers be accurately compared with one another cities stats if transit agencies provide different types of calculations? Whew..does my question make sense?
Ideally transit numbers should described in trips, not boardings, and as a percentage of travel that day.
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  #2113  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:51 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, there is a region-wide policy that limits freeway through-lanes to 3 in each direction. I agree with you on the Rose Quarter area, it's pretty ridiculous to allow a major freeway in a major city to drop to two lanes near a major interchange (I-5 @ I-84). They're adding a third southbound lane on I-5 near Delta Park, which will finally relieve that bottleneck.

It's hard to say how much capacity we should allow, but personally I agree with the 3-lane stance - (which would make a lot more sense if they followed through with this at the Rose Quarter). This region invests a lot in mass transit and land-use planning, and it's wise that our leaders to operate on the premise that widening a freeway to solve congestion is like loosening your belt to solve obesity.

We've all seen the 12-lane freeways in other cities that were once widened to solve congestion, and it doesn't work. I think this region just needs to make mass-transit as convenient and safe as possible, with 'reasonable' additions to the freeway system that would relieve bottlenecks and make for safer commutes. But we'll never see freeways like Houston or LA -- this region takes a congestion 'management' approach, as opposed to 'relief.' There will always be congestion in some form, and we can offer creative alternatives, but we can't 'widen' our way out in the hope that one day we'll say "we're done!"
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  #2114  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
Thanks for the explanation. Are there transit authorities who count every boarding as a new passenger regardless if they are transferring from another bus, or light rail line? So, if a passenger catches 3 different modes of mass transit to get to their destination they are counted as 3 passengers/riders? If this is the case how can transit ridership increases/decreases/numbers be accurately compared with one another cities stats if transit agencies provide different types of calculations? Whew..does my question make sense?
Most, if not all, US transit agencies report "unlinked" trips (i.e. boardings) to the American Public Transportation Association, which compiles ridership reports. (See this page). I think most European agencies (and maybe Canada, too) count linked trips... but I could be wrong. So in other words, you can compare US transit agencies to one another pretty easily, but comparing to other countries is another story. Numbers for US cities will likely be inflated since each boarding is counted.
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  #2115  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2008, 11:54 PM
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Thanks guys for your input.... I will bookmark that report you provided ForAteOh for future reference. You may be correct that Canada may do their calculations differently. I remember guys from Calgary always making comments about the poor support of mass transit in the U.S. compared to Canada....which could be true, I don't know.

Last edited by PacificNW; Jun 12, 2008 at 12:08 AM.
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  #2116  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by brandonpdx View Post
Additionally, it does not have to be some cheesy Vegas vision like you guys are describing either. It could be Portland's unique take on having a market.
i meant vegas only in the sense that they're trying to reproduce an idea completely out of context.
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  #2117  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX City-State View Post
The idea of a market bridge has been floating around PDX planning circles for nearly two decades. The guys at Path merely added the element to a bridge that's going to happen anyways. At one point, several years ago, there was even talk of adding retail space on the Burnside Bridge.
a bridge that's going to happen anyway? either you're referring to the MAX bridge - which is *not* going to happen anyway - at least not at this location, or you're referring to some separate project that i've never heard of.

i kind of like the idea of doing this to the bridges over 405, but at that point, why not just cover 405 altogether. a cafe with a view of the freeway doesn't have nearly the cache of a cafe with a view of the river, so rather than widen those overpasses, they ought to just fill it all in.
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  #2118  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 1:48 AM
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We'll get linked trip calcs when we get smart cards.
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  #2119  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 1:49 AM
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We need a by-pass is all.

205 is inadequate in this regard. Give the by-pass limited access points and just let people use it to get around the city
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  #2120  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2008, 2:57 AM
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even if i supported this (which i definitely don't) it'll never happen for two reasons: 1. any neighborhood negatively impacted will (rightly) raise holy hell about it and 2. the portland "process" will ensure nothing gets built before 2050.
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