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  #3501  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 3:42 PM
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Kinguni Kinguni is offline
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
The NDP is so much better, with all the lies the fed to us in the past decade, especially when it came to Bipole III. . . . You NDP supporters are pathetic.
LOL! Not an NDP supporter. To assume so makes you seem rather pathetic. I vote for the candidate I think will serve me better, not the party or it's leader. Was just telling it as it is. The last NDP government wasted billions of taxpayer dollars. From waste of money health authority buildings to bipole 3.
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  #3502  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2018, 5:14 AM
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While I can certainly sympathise, I have to wonder what happened to "due diligence."

Syndicated mortgages are an unregulated gamble to begin with. You need an extraordinary amount of trust in those managing that gamble. In this case, Rathore and Petrozza.

Thier previous company, Phoenix ended with a $3M payout to what the court called "investor victims." That settlement was in 2011, long before anyone threw money at them for SkyCity. The 2016 court decision was for the Ontario Securities Commission to start forwarding the settlement to investor victims. The 2011 settlement banned Rathore and Petrozza from trading in securities for the next 15 years, but allowed them to continue trading in mortgages.

And even that wasn't their first adventure with investments. The link above mentions that Rathore was banned from selling mutual funds in 2005.

Whoever invested in this either didn't do their "due diligence" or was willing to take one hell of a risk.

If they relied on a broker for that "due diligence", well....

Quote:
Lastly I hear nothing from my broker about this....
...legally the smartest thing the broker can do is shut up and hope they go away.

Also from the article above:

Quote:
'The order … [has] nothing whatsoever to do with Fortress Real Developments, SkyCity': Fortress spokesperson
I expect we'll hear from Rathore and Petrozza in a new business. With a press release stating that what happened at Fortress has nothing to do with their new business.
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  #3503  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 2:17 PM
Pi3141592654 Pi3141592654 is offline
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...missions-fees/


Fortress used one-third of investors’ money for commissions, fees: documents
Janet McFarland
5-7 minutes

Vince Petrozza, chief operating officer of Fortress Real Developments, leaves the company offices in Richmond Hill, Ont. on Nov. 21, 2017.

Chris Helgren

More than one-third of the money raised from investors to provide syndicated mortgage loans for Fortress Real Developments Inc.’s building projects was paid out as cash commissions to salespeople and as consulting fees to Fortress, new court documents say.

The court filings show Ontario’s financial regulator, the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO), has significant concerns about lending practices at Fortress’s affiliated mortgage brokerage company, Building & Development Mortgages Canada Inc. (BDMC). The company has raised more than $700-million from 11,000 investors since 2013, primarily to finance Fortress’s real estate development projects.

In an affidavit filed in court, FSCO lawyer Brendan Forbes said the regulator has received “numerous” complaints from investors about BDMC and the performance of their loans “compared to the promises made to them at the time they invested.” Many investors are people who have put significant portions of their retirement savings in the syndicated loans, he said.

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“As a result of its investigations, FSCO is of the view that there are serious regulatory issues associated with BDMC [syndicated mortgage loans],” he said.

Ontario Superior Court Justice Glenn Hainey approved FSCO’s request on Friday to appoint FAAN Mortgage Administrators Inc. as a trustee to take control of BDMC.

In an affidavit filed to support the trustee application, Mr. Forbes said 35 per cent of the principal amount of money raised to provide syndicated mortgage loans for each Fortress development project was paid out as consulting fees to Fortress and as commissions to salespeople involved in raising the syndicated mortgage loans from investors, including individual agents, brokers “and unlicensed persons.”

Mr. Forbes said the breakdown of the payout structure was not specifically defined, but Fortress co-founder Vince Petrozza told FSCO Fortress’s development consulting fee typically amounted to 2 per cent to 5 per cent of total project costs.

Mr. Forbes said the Fortress portion “may be as high as 12 per cent,” according to information from staff at another mortgage brokerage firm associated with Fortress.

Borrowers that receive syndicated mortgage loans typically pay fees of 1 per cent to 3 per cent of the mortgage amount, including broker fees, according to mortgage web site Ratehub.ca.

The development consulting agreements also give Fortress the right to 50 per cent of project profits, subject to certain fees and deductions, the affidavit said. The agreements also ranked repayment of Fortress’s equity advances ahead of the loans from syndicated mortgage investors.

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Fortress is a real estate development company that partners with builders on new projects, primarily condominiums. The company’s web site says it is developing or has completed 80 projects across Canada with a value of $6-billion.

BDMC acted as Fortress’s mortgage broker, helping the company raise funds for its projects. It is wholly owned by Ildina Galati and operates from the same address as Fortress.

Mr. Petrozza, Fortress’s chief operating officer, was registered as a mortgage broker with BDMC, but his licence was revoked in a Feb. 7 settlement agreement between FSCO and several other parties related to BDMC. Ms. Galati voluntarily surrendered her licence under the agreement.

Mr. Forbes said that in 2013, Ms. Galati directed some BDMC staff to leave the company and help form three independent brokerage firms – FFM Capital Inc., FMP Mortgage Investments Inc. and FDS Broker Services Inc. – to act on behalf of people seeking to invest in syndicated mortgage projects.

He said the intention was to create “some degree of separation” between the brokers acting for individual investors and BDMC, which was acting for Fortress. But he said many tasks investors’ brokers usually perform – such as due diligence reviews on projects and obtaining property valuations – were still done by BDMC as the borrower’s broker.

FAAN was appointed to oversee BDMC under the Feb. 7 agreement. But the arrangement fell apart this month after BDMC committed “multiple breaches” of the terms, FSCO said. FSCO moved on Friday to have the court appoint FAAN as trustee of BDMC, giving it far broader powers.

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Among the breaches of the agreement, FAAN said a new mortgage broker company created to replace BDMC – called Canadian Development Capital & Mortgage Services Inc. (CDCM) and headed by Ms. Galati’s mother, Julie Galati − has not transferred requested records about mortgage loans. Fortress has also failed to provide requested documents.

In his affidavit, Mr. Forbes said FAAN had to take control of BDMC or “no independent third party” would be protecting investors’ interests.

“This situation is untenable and puts the 11,000 individual investors and their investments at risk,” he said.

BDMC did not contest Friday’s application to appoint FAAN as trustee. The company has not replied to requests for comment about FSCO’s concerns.

The RCMP has been investigating Fortress and related companies as part of a mortgage fraud investigation, searching six sites on April 13, including Fortress’s head office and BDMC’s office in Richmond Hill, north of Toronto.
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  #3504  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 2:39 PM
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Simplicity called this, 100 per cent. This has been a very educational experience for me and for many others, I'm sure.
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  #3505  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Simplicity called this, 100 per cent. This has been a very educational experience for me and for many others, I'm sure.
So true. I remember a few years Simplicity asking Ben Myers how he could sleep at night..
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  #3506  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 5:03 PM
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^^^ On piles of cash skimmed off unit purchases for imaginary buildings I would guess his answer would be.
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  #3507  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Biff View Post
^^^ On piles of cash skimmed off unit purchases for imaginary buildings I would guess his answer would be.
AFAIK there have been no allegations that money has been skimmed from unit purchasers. The skimming is from investors in syndicated mortgages. ie investors in the financing of the build, not from people purchasing units.
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  #3508  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 5:55 PM
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But sounds like those investors are mostly normal citizens, not big corporations, from Ontario and elsewhere. The small guy getting sucked into promises of big returns.
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  #3509  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Simplicity called this, 100 per cent. This has been a very educational experience for me and for many others, I'm sure.
This has been the most obvious of scams from the beginning. I can't believe there was actually a pile of people in this thread defending Fortress. Then again, I'm surprised that any fool would dump tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into this ponzi scheme. People never cease to amaze me with their stupidity.
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  #3510  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:28 PM
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This has been the most obvious of scams from the beginning. I can't believe there was actually a pile of people in this thread defending Fortress. Then again, I'm surprised that any fool would dump tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars into this ponzi scheme. People never cease to amaze me with their stupidity.
To be fair though, the general public didn't know these kinds of things. They just presume it's a "condo developer who is going to build a new tower so I'll buy a condo"

I know a few people who invested in these units for themselves. To this day they still don't know about this mess, and they still expect it will be built. I presume to them it was just condo shopping and the allure of being in a new tall tower was what pushed them to put a down payment on sky city. One of them made a decision to go with sky city over glasshouse based on that. I really hope they all get their money back, and either a real developer comes in to give them another option or any of the condos currently on the market downtown end up finding new tenants

It really sucks, as there are a lot of people who were hoping to be living downtown by the time sky city was promised to finish construction and instead are left waiting, not living downtown. I wonder if this experience would turn anyone off from investing in a condo in the future now
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  #3511  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:31 PM
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I think a big question is if rules were broken in terms of the regulation of syndicated mortgages – because they're illegal in MB but not ON, are they even allowed to be used to finance something being built in MB?
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  #3512  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
To be fair though, the general public didn't know these kinds of things. They just presume it's a "condo developer who is going to build a new tower so I'll buy a condo"

I know a few people who invested in these units for themselves. To this day they still don't know about this mess, and they still expect it will be built. I presume to them it was just condo shopping and the allure of being in a new tall tower was what pushed them to put a down payment on sky city. One of them made a decision to go with sky city over glasshouse based on that. I really hope they all get their money back, and either a real developer comes in to give them another option or any of the condos currently on the market downtown end up finding new tenants

It really sucks, as there are a lot of people who were hoping to be living downtown by the time sky city was promised to finish construction and instead are left waiting, not living downtown. I wonder if this experience would turn anyone off from investing in a condo in the future now
Yeah too bad. The fact that it garnered sales does indicate there is a market though for living in a new tallest. If someone came along and proposed a condo in the new tallest range I'm sure it would sell
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  #3513  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:35 PM
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^ I wonder if that ship has sailed... condos were still appreciating reasonably fast when this thing was first floated what was it, 5 or 6 years ago? It's not that attractive of an investment anymore. And a lot of condos have been built in Winnipeg since then so the market has been somewhat saturated.
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  #3514  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ I wonder if that ship has sailed... condos were still appreciating reasonably fast when this thing was first floated what was it, 5 or 6 years ago? It's not that attractive of an investment anymore. And a lot of condos have been built in Winnipeg since then so the market has been somewhat saturated.
Lol I propose a moratorium on suburban and exurban condo developments to bolster sales downtown...
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  #3515  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 6:55 PM
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Lol I propose a moratorium on suburban and exurban condo developments to bolster sales downtown...
The main thing that keeps me at my current address is being next to a grocery store.

But yeah, I'll seriously consider downtown condos next to decent grocery stores.
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  #3516  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:30 PM
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So true. I remember a few years Simplicity asking Ben Myers how he could sleep at night..
I know you two love to go gaga over Simplicity every so often but many people called this stuff on Fortress.
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  #3517  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:33 PM
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I think we all new from early on that Fortress had major issues in the past. Being hopeful and positive that the development actually happens doesn't make you stupid. Just makes us hopeful we'd have one less surface lot and a new building with lots of people downtown.
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  #3518  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
To be fair though, the general public didn't know these kinds of things. They just presume it's a "condo developer who is going to build a new tower so I'll buy a condo"

I know a few people who invested in these units for themselves. To this day they still don't know about this mess, and they still expect it will be built. I presume to them it was just condo shopping and the allure of being in a new tall tower was what pushed them to put a down payment on sky city. One of them made a decision to go with sky city over glasshouse based on that. I really hope they all get their money back, and either a real developer comes in to give them another option or any of the condos currently on the market downtown end up finding new tenants

It really sucks, as there are a lot of people who were hoping to be living downtown by the time sky city was promised to finish construction and instead are left waiting, not living downtown. I wonder if this experience would turn anyone off from investing in a condo in the future now
I was referring more to the syndicated mortgage buyers, not the condo buyers.
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  #3519  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
I think we all new from early on that Fortress had major issues in the past. Being hopeful and positive that the development actually happens doesn't make you stupid. Just makes us hopeful we'd have one less surface lot and a new building with lots of people downtown.
There is a difference between being "hopeful and positive" and being delusional and ignoring obvious signs of a scam. The warning signs on this project were numerous and impossible to ignore. Many people in this thread ignored the evidence because they wanted so badly to believe that this condo was getting built.
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  #3520  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 7:43 PM
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To be fair, I would say the vast majority have been saying it would not happen for a long time now. There haven't been any supporters for a long time. That said, it's not a competition.
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