Average price of Metro Vancouver home now almost $663,000, above pre-recession levels

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

They have all the space in the world.

That's partially true Houses are generally not bought and knocked down in Calgary, in established areas. The footprint is constantly expanding, and now the once far off towns of Airdrie and Okotoks are practically a suburb. Before long we'll be building McMansions in Banff National Park. The city recently annexed a bunch of land to the East..

Calgary is also not quite the "ideal" place to live, geographically speaking, climate-wise, etc. either, and has a much smaller metro population. One of the biggest struggles is coaxing people to want to live downtown. It hasn't gone well in the past, and at one point new condos were estimated to only have a 30% occupancy rate, despite selling out completely due to local speculators who thought they could flip / rent for a profit. But.... then they found out nobody wants to buy, and few people actually want to rent down there, either, and the condo market basically collapsed, with barely above ground condo projects stalled all over the Downtown core still.

There is no ONE answer to property values. You can't play pin the tail on the donkey with this, it's more like a big wheel with 1000 different factors that all play a part.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

They have all the space in the world.

Anyways a little funny story, My friend's family owned an apartment in Hong kong, they sold it and bought a very nice house in near Kerrisdale. Of course this was like 4-5 years ago.
went from a little apartment in HK to decent detached house in Vancouver!

thats it they come from a hot real estate market where they could get a small apartment for what they can get a house here - so the idea of rich foreigners buying up vancouver is not really fair - yes they are foreigners not neccesarily rich they just came from a hot real estate market and the same money buys a lot more here and have money left over for a nice euro brand car seen as "status"

[CameronT120]

Originally Posted by Phusion

^^^ Resident of 2 cities. Native of none

So what? Why can't a person live in two cities (or more)? You're only concern should be whether a property owner is paying his share of municipal taxes.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by CameronT120

So what? Why can't a person live in two cities (or more)? You're only concern should be whether a property owner is paying his share of municipal taxes.

The whole argument is shaping up to be nothing more than xenophobic, mixed with a gross misunderstanding of economics and real estate.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by Phusion

I'm guessing he was a native of Calgary at one time, then moved to Vancouver? But in the process has become so out of touch with both cities. Theres no reasoning with him.

I am a third generation Canadian, originally from Calgary, and bought a place in Vancouver... but not as an investment. I'm only out of touch with your perceived reality, not the actual reality. The difference is stark.

I am not unwilling to admit that foreigners have not helped the Vancouver market, but when the number in the entire metro is around 5%, and when Vancouver has followed the real estate trend of the entire country of Canada (up), I am unwilling to blame it on rich Asians. Especially when the ONLY thing that the article states is that the majority of people buying multi-million dollar luxury homes are *NOW* from Asia (without any historical data). This does NOT affect the majority of people, it does not suddenly price someone out of some market they never had any hope of being in.

What about all of the foreigners who come here and rent? Do they push up your rent, too? Maybe we should just close our borders completely, we don't need foreign business, foreign tourists, anything.

All I am saying is there is no *one* answer, and to pin it on ONE thing is extremely ignorant, especially since you seem so unwilling to actually look at what's happened outside of Vancouver, and Canada. It shows a crass (possibly intentional) lack of understanding in the way things work. Which is not all that surprising, considering that I get the vibe the majority of people on this forum are quite young, and not yet in an economic group that has given them the power to learn how to make the necessary economic decisions. I don't want to say naive, but, we're very close.

[240glt]

My sister is expecting a second baby which has essentially priced her out of the Vancouver market to upgrade from 2 to 3 bedrooms, so she's moving from Kits to Burnaby.

It's unfortunate... I'd like to move back someday but I refuse to pay half a mil for a shoebox in the sky.

[Yume-sama]

It is unfortunate, but that's what can happen. People make do and have their kids share a room, etc.

In my PERSONAL opinion (which has just about as much fact as anything else in this thread) Canada suffers from having really only a half dozen "major" cities, and only a couple of them "desirable". This generation we are in now prefers to live in large urban, centres. With good services, lots of things to do close by, etc. Not out on a farm with an acre of land. With so few cities to choose from, one of them is going to stand out above the rest, as far as quality of life. This is why *I* believe the average price of home in Canada is far higher than in even the United States.

Evident to this is that British Columbia is one of the few provinces with a positive net-migration since 1970. Hundreds of thousands more Canadians have migrated from other Canadian provinces to British Columbia, than have left, during that time. In 2007 near 66,000 Canadians moved to BC, while 40,000 left for provinces like; (primarily) Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Ontario.

The number of Canadian migrants outnumbers the number of foreign immigrants on most years.

This is perhaps something the USA does not have to deal with, as they have over 75 cities with a quarter million people (and 279 with at least 100,000), spread out across their vast country, with just as vast of price differences. Though, why is San Francisco more expensive than Denver? Is it the rich Chinese, too? As far as prices go, most major American metro cities are more expensive than Vancouver. San Francisco, Boston, New York...

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As I've mentioned several times (thus I'm bolding it) the difference is those people you refer to came to Canada to make a better life for their families with the intent of staying here, paying taxes here, and participating fully in Canadian society.

Honestly, I'm a bit frustrated by those who seem to be deliberately ignoring the difference between someone who immigrates with the intent of settling here, and some using the country as a temporary bolt-hole or insurance policy.



Again, please re-read the article. I'm not sure where you're pulling the 5% figure from. Those houses in Dunbar were not $1 million ten years ago, they were close to $500k, so there's been a huge run-up. And note that nowhere else in Canada has there been such a massive run-up in prices despite large scale immigration. Indeed, find a place in North America with the rapid rise to unsustainability with no economic underpinnings to justify it. New York has the status of world financial capital, San Francisco centre of North America's high tech, Vancouver, not so much. Neither is the climate in Vancouver so wonderful (look out the window)that it would attract such a huge run-up.

Those houses on Dunbar were easily selling for a $1 Million 10 years ago.

I don't have to read the article because it is putting blame on only one aspect that has had an influence on the rise in housing prices. When there are many factors and the foreign ownership factor is really a small reason for the rising house prices.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by 240glt

My sister is expecting a second baby which has essentially priced her out of the Vancouver market to upgrade from 2 to 3 bedrooms, so she's moving from Kits to Burnaby.

It's unfortunate... I'd like to move back someday but I refuse to pay half a mil for a shoebox in the sky.

Except what if that shoebox for a half a million is actually a bargain. It may not seem like it today. But in 10-20 years you could look back and same "damn it was cheap back then"

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

It is unfortunate, but that's what can happen. People make do and have their kids share a room, etc.

In my PERSONAL opinion (which has just about as much fact as anything else in this thread) Canada suffers from having really only a half dozen "major" cities, and only a couple of them "desirable". This generation we are in now prefers to live in large urban, centres. With good services, lots of things to do close by, etc. Not out on a farm with an acre of land. With so few cities to choose from, one of them is going to stand out above the rest, as far as quality of life. This is why *I* believe the average price of home in Canada is far higher than in even the United States.

Evident to this is that British Columbia is one of the few provinces with a positive net-migration since 1970. Hundreds of thousands more Canadians have migrated from other Canadian provinces to British Columbia, than have left, during that time. In 2007 near 66,000 Canadians moved to BC, while 40,000 left for provinces like; (primarily) Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Ontario.

The number of Canadian migrants outnumbers the number of foreign immigrants on most years.

This is perhaps something the USA does not have to deal with, as they have over 75 cities with a quarter million people (and 279 with at least 100,000), spread out across their vast country, with just as vast of price differences. Though, why is San Francisco more expensive than Denver? Is it the rich Chinese, too? As far as prices go, most major American metro cities are more expensive than Vancouver. San Francisco, Boston, New York...

God damn rich people from Calgary and Toronto. Who bloody well needs them all they are doing is pricing regular people out of home in Vancouver.

PS I'm being sarcastic

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by 240glt

My sister is expecting a second baby which has essentially priced her out of the Vancouver market to upgrade from 2 to 3 bedrooms, so she's moving from Kits to Burnaby.

It's unfortunate... I'd like to move back someday but I refuse to pay half a mil for a shoebox in the sky.

Living in Kits in the first place puts her in a privileged income bracket compared to most people in Metro Vancouver. People with new families have been looking to the suburbs for affordable housing for 60 years. This is nothing new... It is not the end of the world to move past Boundary (or the Fraser River, etc).

[CameronT120]

Originally Posted by Phusion

I'm guessing he was a native of Calgary at one time, then moved to Vancouver? But in the process has become so out of touch with both cities. Theres no reasoning with him.

He sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You on the other hand, not so much. Lets see some actual studies and numbers which support your claims. Otherwise you're only expressing opinion.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

This is perhaps something the USA does not have to deal with, as they have over 75 cities with a quarter million people (and 279 with at least 100,000), spread out across their vast country, with just as vast of price differences. Though, why is San Francisco more expensive than Denver? Is it the rich Chinese, too? As far as prices go, most major American metro cities are more expensive than Vancouver. San Francisco, Boston, New York...

Actually, only San Francisco, Honolulu and Vancouver are contenders for the moxt expensive metro on the continent (it's hard to determine exactly which, due to metro boundaries). New York is actually cheaper due to the relative affordability of all the boroughs surrounding Manhattan. Chicago, Boston, etc don't even come close. If you take average house prices, San Fran proper is $1.33M, Honolulu at $1.02M, and Greater Vancouver at $0.92M. Fortunately we have a huge market for condos.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Those houses on Dunbar were easily selling for a $1 Million 10 years ago.

I don't have to read the article because it is putting blame on only one aspect that has had an influence on the rise in housing prices. When there are many factors and the foreign ownership factor is really a small reason for the rising house prices.

Sorry, but you lost any credibility when you said "I don't have to read the article"

Stats from 1999:
Vancouver West Avg price: $672,800 Median price: $490,000
http://members.shaw.ca/larrycheng/english/market.htm

[240glt]

Except what if that shoebox for a half a million is actually a bargain. It may not seem like it today. But in 10-20 years you could look back and same "damn it was cheap back then"

I suppose, but it's still a shoebox in the sky. One of the reasons I left Van was because my dollar has way more purchaing power elsewhere. Maybe in another 20 years that will be the life I want again but right now I like the SFH, double garage and small back yard.. all of which are absolutely unattainable in Vancouver for me now.

Living in Kits in the first place puts her in a privileged income bracket compared to most people in Metro Vancouver. People with new families have been looking to the suburbs for affordable housing for 60 years. This is nothing new... It is not the end of the world to move past Boundary (or the Fraser River, etc).

Not really, she's a teacher so makes far less than the average for the area. And there are plenty of lower end low rise buildings where you csn still get a place for a somewhat reasonable price.

She's bought a place near Metrotown, I was just down to visit last week and it's actually quite nice, everything close by, easy transit etc. But she was upset because she'd been in Kits for 7 years, had lots of friends there and there were litterally no accomodations that would suit her growing family.

[SpikePhanta]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I suppose, but it's still a shoebox in the sky. One of the reasons I left Van was because my dollar has way more purchaing power elsewhere. Maybe in another 20 years that will be the life I want again but right now I like the SFH, double garage and small back yard.. all of which are absolutely unattainable in Vancouver for me now.



Not really, she's a teacher so makes far less than the average for the area. And there are plenty of lower end low rise buildings where you csn still get a place for a somewhat reasonable price.

She's bought a place near Metrotown, I was just down to visit last week and it's actually quite nice, everything close by, easy transit etc. But she was upset because she'd been in Kits for 7 years, had lots of friends there and there were litterally no accomodations that would suit her growing family.

Well you could always buy a house SOF...

Also did your sister buy a house or an apartement?
The apartements around metrotown for 3 bedrooms go for about 550,000$ while the houses go a bit higher at around 700K south of imperial though.

In my opinion I would much rather live in a shoebox in the sky in downtown vancouver then living in a mcmansion in Edmonton.

[240glt]

^ I don't live in a McMansion, I own a 1950's 970 s.f. house on a 33x120 lot 2 km's from the downtown core. But either way, It's about the lifestyle you want.... I like my bikes and my old Volvos and my dog...high rise shoebox living is not practical nor desireable for me right now.

She bought, for less than 400k.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by 240glt

But she was upset because she'd been in Kits for 7 years, had lots of friends there and there were literally no accommodations that would suit her growing family.

I mean no disrespect to your sister... but it can't be just about a bedroom, can it?

I don't know why people think a child needs his own room.

Surely, there are other important factors that one needs to consider... such as local schools, kids' friends, neighbourhood...

[240glt]

I don't know why people think a child needs his own room.

Surely, there are other important factors that one needs to consider... such as local schools, kids' friends, neighbourhood...

Perhaps not now but in a couple years when the kids get older, they will.... and kids come with a lot of stuff... four people in a 2 bedroom place is not practical for a lot of people. I know there are a lot of childless people on this board (I am one of them) but I don't think a lot of people have an appreciation for what is entailed. I'm sure they would have stayed in Kits if possible but like I said it was financially not feasible for what they wanted. And their new place is a lot more kid friendly too.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Perhaps not now but in a couple years when the kids get older, they will.... and kids come with a lot of stuff... four people in a 2 bedroom place is not practical for a lot of people. I know there are a lot of childless people on this board (I am one of them) but I don't think a lot of people have an appreciation for what is entailed. I'm sure they would have stayed in Kits if possible but like I said it was financially not feasible for what they wanted. And their new place is a lot more kid friendly too.

I'm not. Yes, kids come with a lot of stuff (much of which new parents find out is not necessary, but that's a discussion for another place and time).

It's definitely true that staying in expensive area involves sacrifice when your family grows... what I have found is that people end up moving and getting new friends because their friends who had families moved on already. I'm sure your sister will end up with even more friends than before and who knows, her previous friends may face the same decision that she had to make should they decide to increase their family size.

Or to put it another way, parents end up having friends who are also parents because they have more in common...

Walking around kits you see a lot of young moms with one child in a $1000 bugaboo stroller.

On the other hand, I know some who grew up as children of refugees and lived in a single bedroom (or some in a single ROOM) until they were in middle school.

---

Changing the topic slightly, I was downtown the other day talking to a friend, 1 bedroom, VERY convenient location close to Robson, Heat and Hot Water incl. $1075.

It struck me as funny because in East Van now, most of the basement suites are tiny, dark and around the $900-$1000 dollar mark.

These are usually two bedrooms, tiled and have a LivingRoom/Kitchen as an entrance.

I thought to myself... if one lived downtown, they spend more of their time out of their home than living in a basement suite, they could do without a car and actually be further ahead.

These basement suites in East Van are ridiculously overpriced when compared with the older stock of apartments around the city, imho.