HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2041  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:33 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,477
Steel Bridge bans buses as rail work starts
The bridge also will shut in stages to MAX, trucks and cars
FACTBOX

• STEEL BRIDGE:
Saturday, May 31, 2008
ERIC MORTENSON
The Oregonian Staff

Portland's Steel Bridge will be closed to TriMet buses for three months beginning Sunday while workers connect the MAX light-rail line to new tracks, part of the $576 million Interstate 205/Portland Mall project.

The closure will extend in stages to cars and trucks and to MAX trains.

The closures involve only the upper deck of the bridge, used by MAX and motor vehicles. The lower deck, used by Amtrak trains, pedestrians and cyclists, will remain open.

The bridge work also will include some construction on the support pillars at the bridge's east end, a TriMet spokeswoman, Mary Fetsch, said.

The Steel Bridge work is part of a larger mall and I-205 project that will add 8.3 miles of track to the MAX line. The 1.8-mile mall addition, running along Southwest Fifth and Sixth avenues downtown, will connect Union Station on the north to Portland State University on the south.

The I-205 section, in east Portland, extends 6.5 miles from the Gateway area south to Clackamas Town Center. That line is scheduled to open in September 2009, and TriMet thinks it eventually will be the MAX system's busiest line.

TriMet projects the line will have 46,500 daily boardings by 2025, and that 84 percent of those will start or end in the I-205 corridor, Fetsch said. Systemwide, MAX now has about 110,000 rides per day, she said.

Go to trimet.org for more information on the closures.

Eric Mortenson; 503-294-7636; ericmortenson@news.oregonian.com For environment news, go to: oregonlive.com/environment

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...600.xml&coll=7
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2042  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 6:53 AM
westsider's Avatar
westsider westsider is offline
Kicking a** since 1907
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 437
I've never been a big fan of MAX, but I would much rather have it buried from Lloyd to Goose Hollow than get this useless mall redesign and yet more surface track through downtown. The greater speed and efficiency gained would be well worth the extra cost, and you know it will happen in the next 50 years so why not bury it the first time? The pressure to add more track is disserving the efficiency of the current system.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2043  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 7:03 AM
Sekkle's Avatar
Sekkle Sekkle is offline
zzzzzzzz
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland area
Posts: 2,276
^ $. I'm sure Trimet would love to do it, too, but... $ Whether the "greater speed and efficiency gained would be well worth the extra cost" is, unfortunately, largely a decision that's up to the federal govt.
__________________
Some photo threads I've done... Portland (2021) | New York (2011) | Seattle (2011) | Phoenix (2010) | Los Angeles (2010)
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2044  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 7:28 AM
pdxman's Avatar
pdxman pdxman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsider View Post
I've never been a big fan of MAX, but I would much rather have it buried from Lloyd to Goose Hollow than get this useless mall redesign and yet more surface track through downtown. The greater speed and efficiency gained would be well worth the extra cost, and you know it will happen in the next 50 years so why not bury it the first time? The pressure to add more track is disserving the efficiency of the current system.
Aaaamen! My biggest problem with max(and rail in general around here) is not with the system or max itself, because I love all things rail, but with the implementation of it. Light rail and especially streetcar are slow and ineffecient--everything i believe rail should not be.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2045  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 5:52 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
Submarine de Nucléar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,477
Its cool that they are predicting an almost 50% increase in # of people riding the MAX tho.

Just imagine if we ever get a Barbur Blvd MAX line... it was supposed to have the highest potential # of riders.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2046  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2008, 7:07 PM
bvpcvm bvpcvm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,788
no kidding. i can't understand why barbur is such a low priority.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2047  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2008, 2:15 AM
NJD's Avatar
NJD NJD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 632
^ Metro is in control of which project goes when, and Clackamas County is in the spotlight right now with the South Corridor project (phase I u/c, and II on the boards). After that, and this one time opportunity to cross into Vancouver, I guarantee we will see another Washington County project (via Barbur to King City).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2048  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 12:07 AM
Sekkle's Avatar
Sekkle Sekkle is offline
zzzzzzzz
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland area
Posts: 2,276
Breaking news from Trimet...
Quote:
Pygmy goat boards a TriMet bus
At approximately 9:45 p.m. last night, an unattended pygmy goat walked on a Line 14- Hawthorne bus. The bus was on layover at SE 94th and Foster and the operator was standing outside her bus with the doors open. The operator was concerned because of the freeway nearby and busy street traffic, and closed the bus doors. She immediately called dispatch and TriMet’s dispatch called 911. A Portland Police Officer responded and transported the goat. The 35-pound goat was wearing a nylon collar.
Tomorrow's Tribune headline...

Wild Animal Boardings Surge on Trimet Buses - Public in Fear
__________________
Some photo threads I've done... Portland (2021) | New York (2011) | Seattle (2011) | Phoenix (2010) | Los Angeles (2010)
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2049  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 12:27 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,116
Very intelligent goat...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2050  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 2:13 AM
bvpcvm bvpcvm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,788
and this after that coyote they found riding MAX a few years back - no WAY am i letting my kids nearing public transit now!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2051  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 2:18 AM
urbanizer405 urbanizer405 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YVR-SEA-PDX
Posts: 47
They seriously need to build light rail along Barbur to Lake Oswego, Tigard, and further south. Look at all the new development there! Does Trimet not want to take advantage of this?

Also, what would be the support for an elevated guideway through Downtown (very little, I assume)?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2052  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 4:41 AM
rsbear's Avatar
rsbear rsbear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas - Hill Country
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanizer405 View Post
They seriously need to build light rail along Barbur to Lake Oswego, Tigard, and further south. Look at all the new development there! Does Trimet not want to take advantage of this?
I have no doubt Trimet would love to extend MAX to the Southwest, and they already are making a sizable investment out there with WES. Just takes a little money. Anybody have a couple billion they would like to donate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanizer405 View Post
Also, what would be the support for an elevated guideway through Downtown (very little, I assume)?
Absolutely fricken none.

Last edited by rsbear; Jun 4, 2008 at 1:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2053  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 6:44 AM
westsider's Avatar
westsider westsider is offline
Kicking a** since 1907
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 437
^ My God, that would be awful. We don't even allow skybridges.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2054  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2008, 5:57 PM
sopdx sopdx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsider View Post
I've never been a big fan of MAX, but I would much rather have it buried from Lloyd to Goose Hollow than get this useless mall redesign and yet more surface track through downtown. The greater speed and efficiency gained would be well worth the extra cost, and you know it will happen in the next 50 years so why not bury it the first time? The pressure to add more track is disserving the efficiency of the current system.
It's actually not a useless mall redesign. It was falling apart and the maintenance costs were increasing. There is a lot of private investment in the area now and more on the way. Building a subway is cost prohibitive. It was definitely looked at but there was no way to finance it. The ridership projections and available funding do not support construction of a subway at this time. There is method to the madness although it doesn't seem so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2055  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 3:14 AM
rsbear's Avatar
rsbear rsbear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas - Hill Country
Posts: 822
I'm extremely excited about the mall rebuild and the introduction of MAX service on 5th and 6th. Most on the forum are probably not old enough to remember, but when the mall was new in the late '70s it was beautiful. To have it be so again is going to be great for the city. I'd love to someday see a subway run through downtown, though. And, hopefully, when that day comes, streetcars can utilize the mall, with minimum rebuild expense.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2056  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 6:33 AM
davehogan davehogan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeplayer1989 View Post
I just hope this thing is a success, which would be easing the traffic on 217!
From the Google Maps and MS Live Maps I've seen in the past few weeks, that's not such a big deal anymore (at least, as much of the time.) It's great at least we're offering another alternative though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2057  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 7:20 PM
NJD's Avatar
NJD NJD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 632
^ I agree, I am all for the Mall redesign. Not many on this forum, it seams, understand the complications of federal funding mechanisms and ridership statistics. All the Mall needs in order to convert to streetcars, according to Trimet, is to either lower the platforms or buy higher floor streetcar vehicles. Instead of getting a 2 mile subway for roughly $3-4 billion (most likely only 0-25% federal funding because of our current ridership statistics), we get a 6.5 mile extension down 205, a 2 mile expansion and rebuild of the transit mall for $575 million (60% federal funds leaving only $220 mil local match). By the time we get our ridership high enough to get 50-60% federal funds for a subway we will have already built 205, Milwaukee and Barbur Max lines with 50-60% fed funding as well. That would make the local matches for all 3 lines, a new Mall with easy streetcar conversion, and the subway the same amount (if you adjust for inflation) as the local match for a subway built now instead. If you think Trimet and Metro have been in error in their decisions, just look at Sound Transit's record for getting Seattle federal funding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_light_rail) .
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2058  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 7:40 PM
NJD's Avatar
NJD NJD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 632
Cool Vancouver looks to Portland

SkyTrain Billions Better Spent on Trams: Study
By David Beers
Published: June 5, 2008
TheTyee.ca



Money for single UBC subway line could pay for region laced by light rail.
Map on left shows the conceptual location of the $220-million-per-kilometre Broadway SkyTrain line proposed by the province. On the right is an illustration of how much tram infrastructure you could install for the same price. Map shows heritage streetcar routes as solid lines, and a conceptual expansion of that historic system in dashed lines.

The planned SkyTrain subway spur along Broadway and out to the University of British Columbia campus will cost taxpayers 15 times what it would take to build a tram line along the same route.

In fact, for the $2.8 billion cost of the single 12 kilometre SkyTrain tube from Commercial Drive to UBC, Vancouver could build 175 km of tram lines crisscrossing the city and beyond.

That is the finding of a study led by Prof. Patrick Condon of the UBC Design Centre for Sustainability. His team based their calculations on the recent experiences of Portland, Oregon, and various European cities with light rail transit.

"This study demonstrates that the money needed for one 12 km subway line would be more than enough to rebuild and substantially expand the region's entire historic streetcar system," state the authors, noting that Vancouver and surrounding communities were built along trolley lines dating back to 1890.

Portland success story

But isn't Vancouver now too congested with traffic to make room for street cars on major thoroughfares?

Not if your guide is Portland, which is about the same size as Vancouver and in the last decade has installed tram lines along former street car routes long ago abandoned to busses and autos. Not only did Portland's trams not clog traffic, they stimulated real estate development along their routes, which vitalized neighbourhoods, sparking a building boom that created more tax revenue for the city.

"Within a one-block distance from the streetcar, new net development increased more than three times as rapidly as in any other block-distance," the report's authors calculate.

The demand for cost efficient public transit in Portland came directly from voters, who shot down a bond measure that would have funded a more expensive system. That message from the citizenry caused planners to seek out tram technology that is two thirds cheaper than more common light rail options and vastly less expensive than the SkyTrain system.

Portland tram trips are much slower than SkyTrain, but could be made speedier than automobile travel by coordinating street light changes as the tram travels through intersections, and by giving the tram a dedicated right of way over parts of routes, say the report's authors.

Slower can be better

The tram's pace may be better suited to the cross town UBC run than a faster subway with fewer stops, the authors assert.

"A high speed system is best if the main intention is to move riders quickly from one side of the region to the other. Lower operational speeds are better if your intention is to best serve city districts with easy access within them and to support a long term objective to create more complete communities, less dependent on twice-daily cross-region transit trips."

The report doesn't portray the SkyTrain as a white elephant -- nor is it the all purpose solution to big city transportation needs.

European cities such as Berlin, Vienna, Paris and Dublin offer a model of how to balance "expenditures between high speed trains, subways and light rail, and cheaper and lighter tram systems to serve more complete urban districts."

"There is no doubt that such a system would not be as fast as a subway," concludes the UBC team. "However based on the Portland experience, the benefits may be an improved quality of life in many neighbourhoods, an improved investment climate for higher density homes and job sites, enhanced access for citizens within their own districts and to other parts of the city (especially for the rapidly expanding seniors' demographic) and a substantially reduced cost per ride.

"As our region pushes towards a goal of 80 per cent reduction in per capita greenhouse gas production, it behooves public officials to look carefully at how taxpayer dollars can be most effectively used towards the creation of a very different pattern of transportation than the one we know today. A return to a pattern known before the rise of the automobile may merit a careful re-examination," wrote the authors.

'Take a hard look' urges prof

The $2.8 billion earmarked for the SkyTrain subway line to UBC is "a huge amount of money for a line to serve just the west side," Condon told The Tyee.

"The good news is we have time to figure out how to best use our limited transit money to make a more sustainable city. Portland has used very modest transit investments to make their neighbourhoods better places to live and work; transit for neighbourhoods, not simply through them. We should take a hard look at their experience before it's too late," said Condon, who holds the UBC James Taylor Chair in Landscape and Liveable Environments and is helping to develop a sustainable town for 15,000 residents in Surrey.

The report, co-written with Condon by UBC Landscape Architecture students Sigrid Gruenberger and Marta Klaptocz, can be read here: (http://www.sxd.sala.ubc.ca/8_researc...FRB06_tram.pdf).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2059  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 8:41 PM
rsbear's Avatar
rsbear rsbear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas - Hill Country
Posts: 822
Very informative, NJD. Thank you.

So many people throw TriMet under the bus (pun intended) for any imperfection. If they would just take a moment to think through how complex funding is for big transit projects - in other words, be realistic - maybe they would better understand what the region has accomplished in public transit is truly amazing. Perfect? No. Amazing? I think so. Name another 2.0 million metro area that's accomplished more in the past 25 years.

Love the comparative with Seattle - a "federal" city/state (Boeing/Navy/Air Force) if there ever was one with about 2x the Portland area's population and they are over 20 years behind us in a light rail transit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2060  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2008, 9:13 PM
Sekkle's Avatar
Sekkle Sekkle is offline
zzzzzzzz
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland area
Posts: 2,276
live webcam showing construction at the Steel Bridge for the Mall light rail...
http://www.portlandmall.org/webcam/index.htm
__________________
Some photo threads I've done... Portland (2021) | New York (2011) | Seattle (2011) | Phoenix (2010) | Los Angeles (2010)
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:46 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.