TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

That explains it, thanks.

I know between Sudbury and North Bay, where a lot of properties abut the highway, there are passing lanes, sometimes for both directions, but they’re extremely dangerous. Imagine trying to pass at 120 kph just to see a vehicle stopped dead trying to turn left in front of you.

Sometimes I find it easier to twin the section along Lake Superior Shore because of that issue. The really rough parts are the 187 km from Nipigon to Marathon and the 82 km from Agawa Bay to Michipicoten.

(As an afterthought, the 660 km in NWO are the easiest to work with, obviously.)

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That explains it, thanks.

I know between Sudbury and North Bay, where a lot of properties abut the highway, there are passing lanes, sometimes for both directions, but they’re extremely dangerous. Imagine trying to pass at 120 kph just to see a vehicle stopped dead trying to turn left in front of you.

Oddly enough, the passing lanes makes me feel safest. It's people trying to overtake on two-lane sections recklessly that scare me.

The passing lanes tend to be on flat stretches, so you can see pretty far off in the distance. I don't see how being in the passing lane with left-turning traffic in front is much different than being in a regular lane, other than you have more options about what to do in a passing lane.

I've driven that stretch of highway repeatedly. It's not the scariest piece of road in the province. The volume of traffic is low, the sight lines are good and there's usually some forgiveness if you have to use the shoulder, since it's paved.

The Ottawa Valley section of Highway 17 could use more passing lanes.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

The Ottawa Valley section of Highway 17 could use more passing lanes.

Where 417 hasn’t yet reached (between McNabb/Braeside and Petawawa) definitely. Loss of UOV rail simply means a higher volume of tractor-trailer traffic in the area.

At least climbing lanes exist between Soo and North Bay so it’s not too bad.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.drydennow.com/local/feds...fFEOY.facebook

Nault said Queens Park would need to reapply for federal funding to twin 17 between Manitoba/Ontario border and Kenora.

[Dengler Avenue]

I don’t know if I’ve asked this before, but how will an extension of 417 to Pembroke affect development on the Quebec side? There are 2 crossings: one before Pembroke (148) and one near Renfrew (653).

In Québec, A50 was supposed to end near Pembroke but apparently the overall demand was too low for that. Funny enough, Route 148 near Luskville is twinned.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I don’t know if I’ve asked this before, but how will an extension of 417 to Pembroke affect development on the Quebec side? There are 2 crossings: one before Pembroke (148) and one near Renfrew (653).

In Québec, A50 was supposed to end near Pembroke but apparently the overall demand was too low for that. Funny enough, Route 148 near Luskville is twinned.

I don't see much of an effect at all. That region of Quebec (the Pontiac) is on the decline and highway links regardless of which side of the river they are on won't change much either way.

You are correct that the A-50 was originally supposed to end just across from Pembroke but that was in the heady highway building and plannin days.

The A-50 won't be extended any further going west. At least very least you would have expected it to go all the way to Aylmer within the urban area, but instead they build Boul. des Allumettières which is part urban boulevard, part highway but still designated as Route 148.

If anything the westernmost segment of A-50 between the A-5 and Montcalm might be decommissioned and turned into an urban boulevard at some point the future.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see much of an effect at all. That region of Quebec (the Pontiac) is on the decline and highway links regardless of which side of the river they are on won't change much either way.

You are correct that the A-50 was originally supposed to end just across from Pembroke but that was in the heady highway building and plannin days.

The A-50 won't be extended any further going west. At least very least you would have expected it to go all the way to Aylmer within the urban area, but instead they build Boul. des Allumettières which is part urban boulevard, part highway but still designated as Route 148.

If anything the westernmost segment of A-50 between the A-5 and Montcalm might be decommissioned and turned into an urban boulevard at some point the future.

Maybe once (if) the A 50 is 4 laned, then, afterwards could be extended.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Maybe once (if) the A 50 is 4 laned, then, afterwards could be extended.

I seriously doubt it.

I just checked AADT and even on the outskirts of Gatineau (Aylmer sector) the 148 is below 10,000, then around 5,000 to the Luskville area which is still kind of Gatineau exurbia. Then it drops to below 5,000, often well below for the rest of the road towards Pembroke. It's around 1500 on the stretch going across to Pembroke and Ontario.

[Dengler Avenue]

The only catch is you have to get rid of last 2 roundabouts (heading west) on 148 and start a bidirectional overpass west of Demontigny so it can get high enough to pass the rail track and A50. Then we will require an interchange at 105.

Edit: The AADT’s that low? Never mind then.

Back to topic:
If Pontiac’s population’s declining then, where does its people go? I mean, if they go to the other side of Ottawa River, extending 417 will just speed up the decline right?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The only catch is you have to get rid of last 2 roundabouts (heading west) on 148 and start a bidirectional overpass west of Demontigny so it can get high enough to pass the rail track and A50. Then we will require an interchange at 105.

Back to topic:
If Pontiac’s population’s declining then, where does its people go? I mean, if they go to the other side of Ottawa River, extending 417 will just speed up the decline right?

Gatineau, Montreal and to a lesser extent, Ottawa.

A 4-lane highway won't stop a region from economically declining. People leave a place because there's no employment options.

Look at North Bay, Ontario. It recently got a 4-lane highway and it dropped in population in the last census.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The only catch is you have to get rid of last 2 roundabouts (heading west) on 148 and start a bidirectional overpass west of Demontigny so it can get high enough to pass the rail track and A50. Then we will require an interchange at 105.

Edit: The AADT’s that low? Never mind then.

Back to topic:
If Pontiac’s population’s declining then, where does its people go? I mean, if they go to the other side of Ottawa River, extending 417 will just speed up the decline right?

The assumption is that the road through Hull with the roundadouts is the final road. It won't be upgraded to an autoroute. The road to Aylmer won't change much either.

Four-laning will happen east of Gatineau on the way to Montreal.

Pontiac people who move away go to Ottawa, not Pembroke.

[Dengler Avenue]

Not if Renfrew and Pembroke become something, IMO, but Ottawa makes sense. At this rate, though, the sole function of 148 outside of Gatineau will just be the EDR (emergency detour route) for TCH on the other side of the river.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I seriously doubt it.

I just checked AADT and even on the outskirts of Gatineau (Aylmer sector) the 148 is below 10,000, then around 5,000 to the Luskville area which is still kind of Gatineau exurbia. Then it drops to below 5,000, often well below for the rest of the road towards Pembroke. It's around 1500 on the stretch going across to Pembroke and Ontario.

I am guessing we are about 20 years before the 50 4 laning is done, if that. By then, maybe west might get more AADT.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am guessing we are about 20 years before the 50 4 laning is done, if that. By then, maybe west might get more AADT.

More like 10 years.

[Dengler Avenue]

Here’s the funny thing I’ve always wanted to bring up:
When MTO was constructing freeways back in the days, 417 was the only one that wasn’t connected to any other freeway (until 416 was done at the turn of the century). Don’t you all think that’s sort of like Saguenay, QC? Well, obviously, Gatineau across the river is no small city whereas there’s little across the river from Saguenay (Chicoutimi). Another difference is that 417 and 401 are joined by A540 (now A30) west of Montreal while A70’s really just on its own.
But I’d think that Bayshore’s like Chicoutimi, Gloucester like La Baie, Arnprior like St Bruno and Renfrew like Alma.

Also, @Acajack thanks for responding to my message. I was gonna ask this in the Ottawa forum but (1) I don’t know how many people (if any) are familiar with Pontiac and (2) I have nowhere to post. (Highway 417 Widening isn’t that appropriate for a question like this.)

[Loco101]

I've been to Saguenay a number of times including last Summer. The 417 has MUCH more traffic than A-70. A-70 is basically a much faster East-West route because Route 170 seems to take forever to drive with many intersections with traffic lights. Going through La Baie is really bad and has yet to be bypassed.

Alma is much closer to downtown Saguenay (Chicoutimi) than Renfrew is to downtown Ottawa.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Here’s the funny thing I’ve always wanted to bring up:
When MTO was constructing freeways back in the days, 417 was the only one that wasn’t connected to any other freeway (until 416 was done at the turn of the century). Don’t you all think that’s sort of like Saguenay, QC? Well, obviously, Gatineau across the river is no small city whereas there’s little across the river from Saguenay (Chicoutimi). Another difference is that 417 and 401 are joined by A540 (now A30) west of Montreal while A70’s really just on its own.
)

A-70 is only technically isolated from the autoroute network. It's connected to four-lane Route 175 to Quebec City, which is a quasi-autoroute even if it is not numbered as such.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

But I’d think that Bayshore’s like Chicoutimi, Gloucester like La Baie, Arnprior like St Bruno and Renfrew like Alma.

)

Chicoutimi isn't really like Bayshore at all. Chicoutimi is the urban heart of the entire region. It's downtown.

Saguenay with Chicoutimi and Jonquière (the other major city in the major) are more like Fort William and Port Arthur in Thunder Bay. But in Saguenay the two prior entities aren't quite as physically separated as they are in Thunder Bay.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Also, @Acajack thanks for responding to my message. I was gonna ask this in the Ottawa forum but (1) I don’t know how many people (if any) are familiar with Pontiac and (2) I have nowhere to post. (Highway 417 Widening isn’t that appropriate for a question like this.)

There is an A-50 thread, but no one has posted in a while:

https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...ebec+autoroute

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is an A-50 thread, but no one has posted in a while:

https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho...ebec+autoroute

Well I’m gonna bump that thread after nearly 2 years of hiatus then.