Regina | Capital Pointe | 29F | 11F | 91M | ?M | Cancelled

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I can understand his frustration. We, well I do, appreciate your comments thefourthtower and any of my negativity is never really directed at you or anyone else but at the lack of progress for what could have been a perception-changing development in Regina.

In what regard are you referring to perception-changing?

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

In what regard are you referring to perception-changing?

New tallest, actual mixed-use. It was all very different for Regina. A residential development of this scale would have been huge for the core and its perception as a place to live.

I'm not knocking the development we've had, the two new condo towers in the apartment area and Canterbury development have been great for the core, but this would have really been a LOOK at downtown kind of project.

[StealthGirl]

This is a prime piece of real estate location-wise.
Is the city collecting anything in the way of property tax?

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

This is a prime piece of real estate location-wise.
Is the city collecting anything in the way of property tax?

https://www.regina.ca/residents/asse...operty-search/

[Kegger]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

This is a prime piece of real estate location-wise.
Is the city collecting anything in the way of property tax?

https://www.regina.ca/opencms/opencm...umber=10213713

Looks like about $45K a year in taxes on an assessed value of $2.5 million. Obviously a lot less than if there was something built on the property.

[Drofmab]

and the gong-show keeps gonging...

Councillor calls for plan as city hall reveals it can't force Capital Pointe project forward

City hall has no way to force the developer behind Capital Pointe to speed up construction on what remains a massive hole in Regina’s downtown.

(for the record, they could infinitely "speed up" the project, and it would still remain motionless... 0 x infinity = 0)

If the City & Province can't figure out how to deal with this situation after 7 years, good lord.

Fortress can come up with a million excuses (and they have), but the fact is there's no good reason for the project to have taken this long to dig. a. hole. I'm willing to bet that we just need to glance at a couple other Skyscraper forums to find examples of bigger projects that were completed in significantly less time, despite the same (or worse) underground utilities, ground conditions, weather, etc.
Three Mosaic Stadiums could have been built in the time it's taken Capital Pointe to dig. a. hole.
The CN Tower took 40months (crews working 24hrs/day, 5 days/week)... could've built 2 of them in the time it's taken to dig. a. hole.

If there were any genuine intent to build the Capital Pointe, we'd have more than a hole to show for 7 years' work.

The inaction on this clearly highlights how toothless the City & Province are - if they don't have the legal basis to kill a project after 7 years of inaction, that tells me that new legislation (and accompanying Bylaws) are necessary.

Since the governments can't help, I'm genuinely surprised investors & neighbours haven't got Tony Merchant on board with a class action of some sort (I'm no lawyer, so I suspect there's a perfectly good reason why this hasn't happened, either cost or lack of basis for a claim, or something else)...

[Crisis]

Just for shits & giggles, I went to the Capital Pointe website. Their last construction update was January 26, 2017. No real surprise there.

As for the lack of progress, is it not simply a matter of sales, or lack thereof? I'd presume that the sales have not reached the threshold (or had reached the threshold and then had people renege on their deposit installments) that allows them to secure the required financing to proceed. Has there been any indication that the issue lies elsewhere?

[Festivus]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Just for shits & giggles, I went to the Capital Pointe website. Their last construction update was January 26, 2017. No real surprise there.

As for the lack of progress, is it not simply a matter of sales, or lack thereof? I'd presume that the sales have not reached the threshold (or had reached the threshold and then had people renege on their deposit installments) that allows them to secure the required financing to proceed. Has there been any indication that the issue lies elsewhere?

No, that it's. The problem is that they started "construction" anyway in an effort to get more people to put deposits down, and then didn't get the interest they wanted, when they should have just refunded the deposits and shut the whole thing down before digging.

[BrannyMuffin]

Originally Posted by Festivus

No, that it's. The problem is that they started "construction" anyway in an effort to get more people to put deposits down, and then didn't get the interest they wanted, when they should have just refunded the deposits and shut the whole thing down before digging.

I don’t think that’s it at all. I think the initial developer took on more than they. Plus handle. I don’t think Fortress ever had any intentions of finishing that building. They didn’t get the interest because no one trusts them at this point. I wouldn’t consider buying a unit unless the building was at least 90% complete. It’s not just Capital Pointe. They have a pattern of taking people’s money and not finishing projects.

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Yes, but originally there was not quite as much coverage of their issues. Even Winnipeg was going down the approvals of a Fortress project a few years after Regina's started.

Given the current climate, there is a 0.00000001% chance that this thing gets built by Fortress in the next decade.

I just want Albert Street back. It would be nice to be able to cross as a pedestrian on both sides and pick up the drycleaning at Belgian easily and have our express buses have their bus lane during peak hours.

[BrannyMuffin]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

^Yes, but originally there was not quite as much coverage of their issues. Even Winnipeg was going down the approvals of a Fortress project a few years after Regina's started.

Given the current climate, there is a 0.00000001% chance that this thing gets built by Fortress in the next decade.

I just want Albert Street back. It would be nice to be able to cross as a pedestrian on both sides and pick up the drycleaning at Belgian easily and have our express buses have their bus lane during peak hours.

No, there wasn’t originally. All I’m saying is I don’t buy that lack of sales was ever the issue. People were buying before they realized how sketchy this all is. They were advertising how great sales were, but then out of the kindness of their hearts they give a few select buyers their deposits back after they did nothing for months. They say they have funding, say they have a hotel (which I’m pretty sure they don’t and never really did). I just think if they weren’t so shady this would’ve been built a long time ago. People were excited to buy units there initially and in the mean time two other condos in the downtown area were sold just fine along with a number of buildings in Canterbury not far away.

I guess my point is Fortress is the issue. Not sales, not the city, not Sask Power or whoever else they decide to blame along the way.

[Finessing]

Originally Posted by BrannyMuffin

No, there wasn’t originally. All I’m saying is I don’t buy that lack of sales was ever the issue. People were buying before they realized how sketchy this all is. They were advertising how great sales were, but then out of the kindness of their hearts they give a few select buyers their deposits back after they did nothing for months. They say they have funding, say they have a hotel (which I’m pretty sure they don’t and never really did). I just think if they weren’t so shady this would’ve been built a long time ago. People were excited to buy units there initially and in the mean time two other condos in the downtown area were sold just fine along with a number of buildings in Canterbury not far away.

I guess my point is Fortress is the issue. Not sales, not the city, not Sask Power or whoever else they decide to blame along the way.

Precisely. This building was never going to be built. It's been a scam to steal from syndicate mortgage investors from the start.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by BrannyMuffin

No, there wasn’t originally. All I’m saying is I don’t buy that lack of sales was ever the issue. People were buying before they realized how sketchy this all is. They were advertising how great sales were, but then out of the kindness of their hearts they give a few select buyers their deposits back after they did nothing for months. They say they have funding, say they have a hotel (which I’m pretty sure they don’t and never really did). I just think if they weren’t so shady this would’ve been built a long time ago. People were excited to buy units there initially and in the mean time two other condos in the downtown area were sold just fine along with a number of buildings in Canterbury not far away.

I guess my point is Fortress is the issue. Not sales, not the city, not Sask Power or whoever else they decide to blame along the way.

Agreed.

[mitchellk12]

Originally Posted by Finessing

Precisely. This building was never going to be built. It's been a scam to steal from syndicate mortgage investors from the start.

Bingo.

[Drofmab]

Originally Posted by Drofmab

and the gong-show keeps gonging...

Councillor calls for plan as city hall reveals it can't force Capital Pointe project forward

City hall has no way to force the developer behind Capital Pointe to speed up construction on what remains a massive hole in Regina’s downtown.

The other thing that gets me about this project is the perspective we keep hearing that the City has no ability to kill it/force it back on schedule. I've heard more than once (repeated in the article above) that the City can declare the permit expired if there isn't "meaningful progress on construction" by March 15th, yet the take on it by so many is that there's nothing the City can do.

We know Fortress will bring in some piece of equipment to move a bit of dirt around - that's what they always do - but any reasonable person would say that a hole that's taken 7 years to dig is not reasonable progress on any scale short of an archaeological dig. And no progress of any substance has taken place since this permit was extended (except the walkways, but surely there's enough common sense to realize they don't represent construction progress).

As I said the last time the permit was up for renewal, the City should be ready to decline the renewal - and that means they should have documentary evidence of the lack of progress (hell, install a webcam at city hall or CUETS & record a year of nothing happening), and have their legal team working through all of the possible angles Fortress might come after them with.

Fortress isn't going to walk away on their own. At the end of the day (today; March 15; 2019; 2050; whenever), it'll require action on the part of the City and/or Prov to shut the gong-show down. And when they do, unless the developer is insolvent, the City can expect to end up in court. IMO, better to pull the bandage off now & face the inevitable. It's been 7 years... no reasonable person thinks this project is progressing/will ever be completed.

[brithgob]

Exactly what good does it do to revoke the permit? You still have a hole in the ground. Maybe you can make them fill it. Then you have a permanent vacant lot. Ok, ban parking on it. What’s your best case scenario? A crappy strip mall? A one or two story medical clinic?

As it stands I think the chance Capital Pointe gets built is between 1 and 10 per cent. Maybe less than 5 per cent. I’ll still take that over any alternative you can realistically offer.

[Drofmab]

Originally Posted by brithgob

Exactly what good does it do to revoke the permit? You still have a hole in the ground. Maybe you can make them fill it. Then you have a permanent vacant lot. Ok, ban parking on it. What’s your best case scenario? A crappy strip mall? A one or two story medical clinic?

As it stands I think the chance Capital Pointe gets built is between 1 and 10 per cent. Maybe less than 5 per cent. I’ll still take that over any alternative you can realistically offer.

You & I are very different people. I'm not a fan of an eyesore with unending pedestrian & vehicular disruption on a project that will never be completed.

And frankly, yes - at this point, I'd take an empty lot over a giant, disruptive eyesore.

City crews could fill the hole & add the cost to Fortress's tax bill. Then apply clean property bylaw to ensure it looks decent. If Fortress doesn't take care of it, City can landscape it & add the cost to their tax bill. So long as Fortress keeps paying their taxes, this is all revenue-neutral to the City. Fortress stops paying their taxes, City can sell the property.
(I realize the above is exceptionally unlikely to happen, just pointing out that the City has plenty of options they could use, if they choose to).

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by Drofmab

You & I are very different people. I'm not a fan of an eyesore with unending pedestrian & vehicular disruption on a project that will never be completed.

And frankly, yes - at this point, I'd take an empty lot over a giant, disruptive eyesore.

City crews could fill the hole & add the cost to Fortress's tax bill. Then apply clean property bylaw to ensure it looks decent. If Fortress doesn't take care of it, City can landscape it & add the cost to their tax bill. So long as Fortress keeps paying their taxes, this is all revenue-neutral to the City. Fortress stops paying their taxes, City can sell the property.
(I realize the above is exceptionally unlikely to happen, just pointing out that the City has plenty of options they could use, if they choose to).

I believe the City has stated that they do not have options. So long as there is no danger, they have no legal right to do anything. Cities have a very limited right to make laws.

[The Bess]

Safety issues probably the only way, as per below in Calgary in 2010

http://www.pressreader.com/canada/ca...89308998121055

[Drofmab]

Originally Posted by Stormer

I believe the City has stated that they do not have options. So long as there is no danger, they have no legal right to do anything. Cities have a very limited right to make laws.

That was kind of my point: people keep saying the City has no optiona (the LP headline essentially says it), but I've seen more than one statement asserting that the City can declare the permit expired if there isn't "meaningful progress on construction" by March 15th (see today's article).

Now, this could be poor reporting, but if it is, someone needs to clarify.

If it isn't, then the City has an option - without need for new/revised provincial legislation.