U.S. looks at Delta terminal as coal port to Asia

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by northwest2k

Yes but look at the population in shanghai. Compared to the population in BC. We're doing the best with what we've got which is only 4.3 million people.

That has nothing to do with it......it has more to do with vision and possibly cost. They are estimating that shipment growth in Vancouver will grow by 200% over the next 15-years.....it'll likely be much more than that, but only if we allow more capacity.

The Port of Prince Rupert's 500,000 TEU's was built in 2005 for $170-million. The plan to quadruple that capacity by 2012 to 2-million TEU's and more storage space will cost nearly $700-million.

At Deltaport, the new third birth will increase capacity from 900,000 to 1.3 million TEU's and 20 hectares of storage space will cost $300-million.



Really, what we should be looking at is at least 4-million TEU's for both Deltaport and Prince Rupert, by 2012, with future plans for even more expansion.

[amor de cosmos]

Generally I agree but there's still more to it than that, 2 ports don't make up the entire transportation system. Yes expanding the ports could be part of the solution, but if the system is hampered by inefficiencies like delays, congestion, surges, etc expanding port capacity won't help much. Recently Finning (the world's biggest Caterpillar dealer) dumped the Port of Halifax in favour of American ones because of CN's mismanagement of their freight system. That was ~20% of the Port of Halifax's business they lost, and it wasn't their fault. It's just as important for trucks & trains to leave & arrive when they're supposed to. Transport Canada has begun a review of Canada's rail freight system though, but it will take time for their recommendations to be released:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/mediaroom/releas...8/08-h091e.htm

Improving the efficiency of the whole freight system can increase the capacity of ports as much as buying more land, cranes, etc for the ports, and it would probably be cheaper too. I said elsewhere that only CN services Prince Rupert; that's one thing that might keep shippers from using Prince Rupert, and it has nothing to do with the PRPA or a government.

[northwest2k]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

That has nothing to do with it......it has more to do with vision and possibly cost. They are estimating that shipment growth in Vancouver will grow by 200% over the next 15-years.....it'll likely be much more than that, but only if we allow more capacity.

The Port of Prince Rupert's 500,000 TEU's was built in 2005 for $170-million. The plan to quadruple that capacity by 2012 to 2-million TEU's and more storage space will cost nearly $700-million.

At Deltaport, the new third birth will increase capacity from 900,000 to 1.3 million TEU's and 20 hectares of storage space will cost $300-million.



Really, what we should be looking at is at least 4-million TEU's for both Deltaport and Prince Rupert, by 2012, with future plans for even more expansion.

But it takes workers to make these upgrades to the port. Workers that we just don't have. Thats why I mentioned that we only have 4.3 million people in BC while Shanghai has basically an unlimited amount of workers. Do you know how hard it is to get skilled laborers up in Prince Rupert? I think you're underestimating the shortage of skilled labor in this province.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by northwest2k

But it takes workers to make these upgrades to the port. Workers that we just don't have. Thats why I mentioned that we only have 4.3 million people in BC while Shanghai has basically an unlimited amount of workers. Do you know how hard it is to get skilled laborers up in Prince Rupert? I think you're underestimating the shortage of skilled labor in this province.

I think you're mixing apples with oranges. The limits on container expansion at Port Metro Vancouver have very little to do with labor issues and everything to do with vision (or lack thereof), NIMBY opposition and bureaucratic red tape. The various environmental studies, community consultations, government approvals etc etc for expansion took several years alone.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by northwest2k

But it takes workers to make these upgrades to the port. Workers that we just don't have. Thats why I mentioned that we only have 4.3 million people in BC while Shanghai has basically an unlimited amount of workers. Do you know how hard it is to get skilled laborers up in Prince Rupert? I think you're underestimating the shortage of skilled labor in this province.

Here in the Lower Mainland the housing/condo industry is cooling down and we're seeing major projects being finished.....the convention centre, Canada Line, Olympic venues, Olympic Village, etc. That's a ton of labour that will be freed within the next year.

Even so, labour isn't really a problem....even for Prince Rupert. If they want to get it done, they'll get it done....even at a higher cost....by getting people to temporarily move north.




edit: Hourglass is right. The fed's environmental study held back the berth 3 Deltaport expansion for 2 years.....and the NIMBY's in Tsawwassen and Delta aren't helping either.
http://www.againstportexpansion.org/...eport2-opt.pdf




As for the Chinese comparison, it's different. They can certainly keep their costs way way way down with ridiculously low wages.....but more importantly, the Chinese economy is growing rapidly. Transportation and port infrastructure projects aren't tied up by community consultations and government approval....they're approved almost immediately with construction beginning soon after. There's no time to waste as this is infrastructure that China needs desperately. The entire nation is being planned by Beijing.

[jlousa]

The labour shortage won't be ending in the construction industry for quite a few more years. There are numerous large projects set to start when these end.
My previous employment was with the VPA and don't think for a second they are leaving anything on the table, they are expanding as fast as they can. The growth at Vanterm/Centerm and Deltaports over the last decade has been incredible. Neptune is also in the process of a major expansion. They are all expanding as quick as economicallly viable.

[LeftCoaster]

Isn't the main problem with expanding the ports not the port facilities themselves but the rail/road lines out and subsequent infrastructure?

On a related note anyone see the massive container crane in English Bay over the last few days?

[amor de cosmos]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Isn't the main problem with expanding the ports not the port facilities themselves but the rail/road lines out and subsequent infrastructure?

On a related note anyone see the massive container crane in English Bay over the last few days?

see posts 9 & 22

[amor de cosmos]

post 22 cont'd:

Time for a New National Vision: Opportunities and Constraints for Canada in the Global Movement of Goods, by the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications was recently released also:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/39/2/parlbus/c...p07jun08-e.htm

edit: & in January another expert panel submitted their report:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/majorissues/APGC...isorReport.htm

Things are definitely happening, but it takes time to make all these changes.

[officedweller]

The Port of Tacoma is pretty big:

http://www.portoftacoma.com/Page.aspx?nid=86

[mr.x]

The labour shortage won't be ending in the construction industry for quite a few more years. There are numerous large projects set to start when these end.

That's true i guess.....with BC Place, Gateway, Evergreen Line....








Prince Rupert ports had boom year

Leanne Ritchie, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, July 02, 2008

PRINCE RUPERT - The opening of the Fairview Container Terminal and strong performances by Ridley Terminals and Prince Rupert Grain resulted in tonnage volumes through the Port of Prince Rupert increasing by 35 per cent in 2007.

At the Prince Rupert Port Authority (PRPA) annual general meeting last week, Joe Rektor, vice-president of finance and administration, said tonnage was up by more than 11 million as the port continued to recover from the economic slowdown that happened between 2002 and 2005. The 2007 tonnage was 237 per cent up on the 2005 level.

The driving numbers behind the port's finances is the amount of traffic that moves through its facilities.

"We've turned a corner and we've got a much brighter future and hopefully there will be many more bright things to come," said Rektor.

Revenues increased from $5.7 million in 2006 to $7.689 million in 2007. However, expenses also increased - from $5.562 million to $7.767 million - as the port authority continued to plan for the development of Phase Two of the Fairview Container terminal. The PRPA also took on $22-million in long-term debt in order to finance the construction of Phase One of Fairview. This debt will be paid off by 2016.

The $170-million Fairview Container Terminal project was financed for $25-million by the PRPA, with the remaining amount coming from CN Rail and Maher Terminals.

The port came out of 2007 with a loss of $219,000. It remains in good overall financial health, with more than $9 million in assets and $104 million in property, plants and equipment.

"The year 2007 really is the year we became a leading trade corridor gateway," said Don Krusel, president and CEO of the Prince Rupert Port Authority.

"It was about bringing that container facility into action. It's something we have been talking about in this community for what seems like decades," said Krusel.

There were 17,000 container movements through Fairview between Oct. 31 and Dec. 31, 2007, and the facility has repeatedly proven itself as a successful business model, said Krusel.

"What we were selling was speed and efficiency. We said we were going to create the fastest express gateway from Asian markets into the North American," he said.

"The industry is now talking about the fact that containers moving through this gateway are reaching their destination ... three days faster than the fastest alternative."

Ridley Terminals showed a continued rebound in 2007, shipping 5.09 million tonnes.

Prince Rupert Grain had another good year, shipping in excess of five million tonnes.

Two thousand and seven was also the best year yet for cruise ship activity since the opening of the Northland cruise ship terminal in 2004. The year saw almost 100,000 passengers.