Tempe Development Thread

[TempeSilverFox]

Originally Posted by MegaBass

It'll hopefully be done by August barring no setbacks. IDK why they took so long to get it going. It was suppose to start like February and would of been completed this month.

You're right, it was supposed to start earlier, but due to the above average rainfall that our state received this winter, they couldn't safely start the project until the Salt River's flow subsided. A Tempe Center for the Arts employee advised me last week that the project should be completed in mid/ late July!

I'd love it if the city would build a bridge at the east dam as well, to create a perfect circuit of Town Lake!

[MegaBass]

Some good news on the Hayden Flour Mill

By Garin Groff, Tribune | 1 comment
The Hayden Flour Mill has stood as one of Tempe’s most iconic buildings for more than 90 years, but its reputation in the last decade has been more of a hazardous eyesore.
The last decade was also a time of redevelopment proposals that went nowhere, which has triggered the city to revive the historic site on its own.
The plans are modest:
A coat of paint on the mill.
A lawn.
Movie screenings in the evening.
While the most recent redevelopment plan would involve $500 million, this will come in at about perhaps $350,000.
A developer will eventually step forward but the city wasn’t willing to leave the site fenced off indefinitely, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe’s community development director.
“One of the lessons we’re learning from the recession is you don’t have to have a big gigantic plan to do a project,” Anaradian said. “It’s OK to do things incrementally.”
Even a simple improvement should boost the way the community feels about the place, he said. The fence surrounding it is plastered with images of grand downtown projects that won city approval but evaporated in the recession. Those images ringed many lots in Tempe but now only remain at a few sites where nothing happened, Anaradian said.
The improvements should help the sleepy stretch of Mill Avenue come to life and change visitors’ perceptions, said Nancy Hormann, executive director of the Downtown Tempe Community.
“I think that they’re going to look at it for what it is instead of considering it an eyesore,” Hormann said.
The city is working with the DTC and the Rio Salado Foundation on a project funded largely through donations and $70,000 from Tempe. The city’s involvement comes more than a decade after Tempe began working with developers to restore the mill and surround it with shops, offices, a hotel and restaurants. Tempe approved two projects that never came to fruition, and the city figures it will take several years before the economy will improve enough to entice development.
The site is especially costly to develop because of height and square footage restrictions, requirements to restore the mill and silos and a lack of infrastructure. All that adds $8 million to the cost of any development, Mayor Hugh Hallman said.
The economy will have to be running at full tilt before a developer will step forward, which Hallman figures will be three or four years.
The Rio Salado Foundation aims to raise $250,000 to $350,000 for the site as well as restoring the front of Monti’s La Casa Vieja across the street. Both were developed by Charles Trumbull Hayden and need to be tied together, Hallman said.
“Keep in mind this is the historic center of Tempe’s existence,” he said. “The mill is the reason Tempe exists as a city and gave rise to the commercial success that came afterward.”
Work is expected to start in early summer. The public won’t have access to the mill or silo, but at least they’ll be able to touch the outside walls when the park opens in the fall. Some additional features could be added depending on fundraising and community response, Anaradian said. But knowing most improvements will be temporary, the city isn’t aiming for luxury.
“We were always afraid to put grass in anywhere because then it’s hard to put a building on top of it,” Anardian said. “We don’t want this to be a park forever. But honestly, for the next five years, maybe it needs to be. And that’s OK.”

I hope they restore that Hayden Flour Mill lettering and that bag of flour as well.

[PHX31]

/\ I hope they restore the lettering, but leave the "ghost sign" flour bag as it is... making this sort of a park is a great idea. Much better than whoring it up with crappy looking condos.

[PHX31]

It would be cool if they could incorporate a few historical displays on the site of the Mill. I know they did a big archaeological survey right there, and when the light rail construction went through, there were archaeologists on site at all times. I personally saw them trench into several Hohokam burial sites when I worked on the light rail as an inspector. I saw several skeletons, intricate pots, hand-made jewelry, the old native american irrigation canals and about a trillion pottery sherds. Not to mention the historical original Tempe artifacts that came up in the digging like old whiskey and medicine bottles, and other various things.

If they could put some of this stuff on display that would be very cool, IMO. They could have a big display of some of the pre-historic stuff they found (related to the original native american settlements in the area), and they have a big display of the historic stuff they found (from the early 1900s, etc.). Most of this stuff is just sitting in storage. Sprucing up the Mill with a paint job, some lawns, projected movies, and historical displays of stuff they found near the Mill would be great.

It would be a good way to actually celebrate some of the rich history Tempe has that most people don't know about.

[azsunsurfer]

Yes I can see it now...."restore" the mill, turn it into a beacon of the community and a few years later when some developer has legitimate plans to redevelop the site a whole battle will ensue with the community to "save the mill!" A whole class warfare will breakout between the community that has now become attached to the mill as a public space against the greedy developers who the city originally had hoped would generate some much needed tax revenue and investment towards that part of Mill....

[plinko]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

Yes I can see it now...."restore" the mill, turn it into a beacon of the community and a few years later when some developer has legitimate plans to redevelop the site a whole battle will ensue with the community to "save the mill!" A whole class warfare will breakout between the community that has now become attached to the mill as a public space against the greedy developers who the city originally had hoped would generate some much needed tax revenue and investment towards that part of Mill....

^and? If there's an easy fix that somehow allows the structure to be a community asset rather than a community eyesore, then so what? Plenty of other vacant land in Tempe for condos.

I've always hoped that the site would be redeveloped, but ONLY provided that the mill itself would remain in some capacity (as an adaptive re-use).

[MegaBass]

Stopped by the Pedestrian Bridge on Thursday. They're about ready to install the third section. Noticed on campus nearly all the other remaining buildings without rooftops solar plants were being installed. Student Services, Music Building, and so on. Quizno's is about to open by Mill/University and noticed another sandwich shop is situated not too far from them. Still not much word on what's going on with Border's but they cleared out everything inside.

[MegaBass]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/golf...su-future.html

Article on future of ASU's Karsten Golf Course. Guess it sort of explains my question on what's going on with Border's and also parts of Centerpoint.

[phoenixwillrise]

You know I am all for saving buildings that have historical value, and look good, but I am sorry this mill is just butt ugly! I say nuke it, there is like a million of these types of buildings in the U.S. do we really need this eyesore as the entryway to Tempe? I wish someone had burned down this thing years ago.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

You know I am all for saving buildings that have historical value, and look good, but I am sorry this mill is just butt ugly! I say nuke it, there is like a million of these types of buildings in the U.S. do we really need this eyesore as the entryway to Tempe? I wish someone had burned down this thing years ago.

Yeah, I'm sure the MILL has no significance for MILL avenue and Tempe in general


Good looks are subjective; combine that with your judgment on the importance of preserving the mill and I'm sure you can understand why most here are going to dismiss your opinion.


EDIT: That goes without touching on a lack of vision being demonstrated here. If you can't imagine this thing being renovated to something more attractive then I can only hope you have no career in design, urban planning, architecture or really anything aesthetic. . . just sayin'

[SunDevil]

Is this new. I may have skipped over it before.
http://www.riosaladoecodistrict.com/index.php
it's a colaborative project with ASU and Tempe, might shed a little more light on what's on the table for Karsten.

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Is this new. I may have skipped over it before.
http://www.riosaladoecodistrict.com/index.php
it's a colaborative project with ASU and Tempe, might shed a little more light on what's on the table for Karsten.

Wow good find where did you find this? Looks exactly as I heard the rumors of SDS successor. Its going to be smaller but will have a shade structure looming over it. Looks like they're completely razing off the cavernous press box too which I bet broadcasters will be enthused about.

My concerns though are where are you going to park if they're going to build on Lot 59? Also where is Packard Stadium or its successor? Also building on Kaji Practice fields? Don't tell me they're going to move Baseball off campus to Phoenix Municipal again. Would be good too adding an Arts District since they failed to address any added space for the Program when that conglomerate Arts & Business Gateway by University and Mill was on the table.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

Yeah, I'm sure the MILL has no significance for MILL avenue and Tempe in general


Good looks are subjective; combine that with your judgment on the importance of preserving the mill and I'm sure you can understand why most here are going to dismiss your opinion.


EDIT: That goes without touching on a lack of vision being demonstrated here. If you can't imagine this thing being renovated to something more attractive then I can only hope you have no career in design, urban planning, architecture or really anything aesthetic. . . just sayin'

While it's true that not all of us plan to have a career in design, urban planning, etc..., I would like to imagine the mill being renovated too, but neither you nor anybody else has even offered to design what the renovated mill could look like, yet you are expecting that we use our imagination, so give the guy a break. Until then, while the mill has historic value, it IS and has been an eyesore.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by MegaBass

Wow good find where did you find this? Looks exactly as I heard the rumors of SDS successor. Its going to be smaller but will have a shade structure looming over it. Looks like they're completely razing off the cavernous press box too which I bet broadcasters will be enthused about.

My concerns though are where are you going to park if they're going to build on Lot 59? Also where is Packard Stadium or its successor? Also building on Kaji Practice fields? Don't tell me they're going to move Baseball off campus to Phoenix Municipal again. Would be good too adding an Arts District since they failed to address any added space for the Program when that conglomerate Arts & Business Gateway by University and Mill was on the table.

I would assume that the long term goal is to move (ie: build new) athletic facilities to open space, were Karsten to be bulldozed. Of course, that doesn't include Sun Devil Stadium... gotta play between the buttes! I would hope they leave some room for tailgating!

[Tempe_Duck]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

I would assume that the long term goal is to move (ie: build new) athletic facilities to open space, were Karsten to be bulldozed. Of course, that doesn't include Sun Devil Stadium... gotta play between the buttes! I would hope they leave some room for tailgating!

I think they should do something similar to the Great Lawn at the Cardinal Stadium. During the off days it could be a park/SRC field.

[phoenixwillrise]

Well Kevin if you read the Republic today looks like I am not the only one that says tear that thing down. I could go for a compromise though if they could retain it and in an altered state like those people from NORCAL who were going to do a winery thing there, just as long as most of that butt ugly thing was hidden from the street. I would admit if they could do some ultra cool thing like fill that beast silo with M'M'S and have a glass shoot sliding that shit down from the silo would be pretty trippy and cool. Another idea so you can retain the name MIll ave without going through withdrawals Kevin, is dissassemble this beast and put it at the other end of Mill Ave in Kiwanis Park or something and make a huge slide for little kids or something. Hey, it's great that this thing is 125 years old, but do you realize there is like 10,000 of these things in he midwest? Tourist who come here from all over the midwest must say to themselves, what is that piece of shit doing at the entryway to beautiful downntown Tempe?

[combusean]

History is a lot more than a pile of bricks that make up a building or the layed concrete in the silos. It's as contextual as anything else. Both of your ideas are terrible and I feel like I'm being trolled, but I've bitten anyway.

Why should anyone give one rat's ass about whether something exists in the Midwest or not? Most of the historic buildings and neighborhoods here are a dime a dozen in other cities.

I am really sick of Midwesterners telling Arizonans what to do with their historic buildings and structures, becoming their own end-all authority on what to preserve here and what to demolish. It's really annoying. It's like they want to make all of AZ as decayed, white-bred, and boring as wherever the hell they're from.

[westbev93]

Lots of historic structures have been eyesores in the past. Then they are fixed up to preserve our past for today and tomorrow. This is particularly important with respect to things that are not merely old, but important pieces of local history like the Hayden Mill. I'm from Ohio. There are admittedly tons of these dotting the small farm towns there and elsewhere in the Midwest. But this is the only one in Tempe. And if not for that mill and the adjacent ferry crossing, Tempe would not have existed. Tempe grew up around that Mill. It's important save that link the beginnings of Tempe. I guess we disagree about what should be at the gateway to Tempe. Personally, I think the historic mill is the perfect gateway to Tempe rather than another new office or condo building.

I'm tired of hearing people tell me that things around Phoenix/Tempe/AZ in general are not old enough or unique enough to be historic and preserved. That excuse has already wiped away most of our local history. I am hopeful that we will collectively change our attitude and save this important landmark. If we compare our structures to other places, there will always be something older. But because there is an older [insert name of anything] in the Midwest or back East, does that mean we shouldn't save it? Using that logic, we should tear everything in America down because there is something older in Europe.

Preferably, the mill would be preserved and re-used in some way. But short of that, I'd rather the damn thing sit vacant like it is now rather than have it razed for another dirt lot or glass tower.

[combusean]

^ QFT. thank you.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by westbev93

Lots of historic structures have been eyesores in the past. Then they are fixed up to preserve our past for today and tomorrow. This is particularly important with respect to things that are not merely old, but important pieces of local history like the Hayden Mill. I'm from Ohio. There are admittedly tons of these dotting the small farm towns there and elsewhere in the Midwest. But this is the only one in Tempe. And if not for that mill and the adjacent ferry crossing, Tempe would not have existed. Tempe grew up around that Mill. It's important save that link the beginnings of Tempe. I guess we disagree about what should be at the gateway to Tempe. Personally, I think the historic mill is the perfect gateway to Tempe rather than another new office or condo building.

I'm tired of hearing people tell me that things around Phoenix/Tempe/AZ in general are not old enough or unique enough to be historic and preserved. That excuse has already wiped away most of our local history. I am hopeful that we will collectively change our attitude and save this important landmark. If we compare our structures to other places, there will always be something older. But because there is an older [insert name of anything] in the Midwest or back East, does that mean we shouldn't save it? Using that logic, we should tear everything in America down because there is something older in Europe.

Preferably, the mill would be preserved and re-used in some way. But short of that, I'd rather the damn thing sit vacant like it is now rather than have it razed for another dirt lot or glass tower.

Precisely! Thank you for the well-stated response.

Originally Posted by azliam

While it's true that not all of us plan to have a career in design, urban planning, etc..., I would like to imagine the mill being renovated too, but neither you nor anybody else has even offered to design what the renovated mill could look like, yet you are expecting that we use our imagination, so give the guy a break. Until then, while the mill has historic value, it IS and has been an eyesore.

I believe the response from Westbev quoted above explains quite well why you shouldn't need a career in design to understand this. I was initially just making a point about individuals aesthetic opinions; but honestly, you don't need a career or education in design to use your imagination to visualize the place as something different. I suppose that is something I've never really understood though; kind of like people who can't visualize a building by it's floor plan.

Also, no one here really should need to suggest a renovation for the mill, we are simply discussing the POTENTIAL. Relatively detailed information about what the city plans to do has been released and if you can't IMAGINE that, then that's your issue.