Adding to the comments about Film Noir...
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Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug
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Of course there are many more on this list.
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As with ANY movie list, I like several of these, but do not like others. One of my particular film noir favorites is on this list, but I don't think I've ever seen it on a top ten list before...and that's Dark Passage. Recently I've been thinking I should find and read the novel it was based on.
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Originally Posted by John Maddox Roberts
For me, film noir involves a rejection of the idealism of earlier films. In noir, nobody is really innocent. Even the best people are deeply flawed. People who are not career criminals think they can solve their problems with a crime, just this once. As Sterling Hayden says in "The Killing," "They've all got a little larceny in 'em."
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I've read a few books about Film Noir and what makes this film genre subject to great conversations is that no one agrees on an exact definition of this genre, so some of it is in the eye of the beholder.
One of the aspects of film noir that I read about once and notice in the best of them is that the protagonists in the film are usually involved in circumstances they were thrust into or had thrust upon them and they have to deal with it. Circumstances beyond their control. That's why detectives are often in film noir stories.
In Dark Passage, of course, the protagonist is in jail for a crime he didn't commit. So he breaks out.
In Laura, well I might give too much away for those who haven't seen it if I discuss that one.
In film noir, "dames" often cause trouble getting men to lose control and do their bidding. Like in Double Indemnity.
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Originally Posted by AlvaroLegido
CityBoyDoug, « The Third Man », « Sunset Boulevard », « M » and « Rebecca » are great movies but I don't feel they are « noir » like the 6 others. Yes, they are filmed with the esthetic which came from Murnau, Lang and some other German directors of the silent Twenties but this is not my comprehensive « noir » mood of the 6 others and many others. To my sense « noir » films are not based on psychology like the 4 movies but on suspense situations related to a police ambience or something relevant. Am I the one to think like that ?
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I'd agree with you about those titles, except for Sunset Blvd. I think it's classic film noir. A man stumbles into an unforeseen situation out of the blue, a manipulative dame gets him in further over his head, with dire consequences. Depending on who you think is the protagonist, though, because I've read opposite opinions, Norma could also be the one who has the unforeseen situation thrust upon her.
SIDEBAR: I once had a class in college where we were to dissect a play, tell who the protagonist and antagonists were and discuss our opinions. I happened to find a book in the college library where someone wrote extensively about this very play, so I basically used his opinions about this and didn't think about it on my own. When my paper was graded I got a really bad grade (a "D") with this note scribbled across the top: Absolutely NO ONE thinks that "so & so" is the protagonist in this play -- "D". At the risk of the professor knowing how much that book had influenced my paper, I wrote a note and slipped it into his mailbox asking for him to reconsider my grade. I said, "Well SOMEONE else does think he was the protagonist, might you reconsider my grade? And I gave the book title, author and where it could be found in the library. He did NOT reconsider.
Another fim noir with a strong female lead, has Mildred Pierce dealing with an unforeseen situation thrust upon her. And, though the audience doesn't know the reasons for it for quite awhile, that is the case.
And speaking of Mildred Pierce and Double Indemnity, and let's throw in The Postman Always Rings Twice... I read those three James M. Cain novels and I have to say I think the movies that came from them are infinitely superior to those pulp novels he wrote. I hated the Mildred Pierce mini-series, especially because it was filmed on the east coast. I don't know why, but I've always been able to tell if something is filmed on the shores of the Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean, whether in b&w or color.
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Originally Posted by odinthor
The discussion of Noir films prompted me to re-watch the original film of The Maltese Falcon, with Ricardo Cortez and Bebe Daniels--just finished it a moment ago. In my opinion, it makes the later more famous version look pallid. Bogart's unquestionably the better actor; but the one-dimensional primitivity of Cortez makes his Spade much more chilling.
But . . . we have both versions to enjoy!
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I've never seen the original version of this, but in my circle of friends, I have never known anyone who liked The Maltese Falcon with Bogart. You're the first! I do know it's always seen as one of the first of the genre and is highly regarded by many, like yourself, but I just find it terribly boring. I've seen it three times, I'd guess, once when shown on TV, another time on a video cassette and lastly in a film noir series at AMPAS. I gave it three chances, heh!
I believe someone on NLA once also dismissed out of hand any movies as film noir that were in color. Though rare, I feel there are fine examples. My favorite is Desert Fury.
It's a great topic for discussion.