Canada Line races toward capacity

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Ahhh but the difference is, can you find any trains in Vancouver that look like Delhis locals? (Which still carry tons of people I might add...)

What their local trains look like is irrelevant - we're talking about Hyundai Rotem trains. Our local buses carry a lot of people but we're not comparing them to our trains either.

Any add-ons are not 'little to no cost' and in the case of LCD screens don't add a lot of info that's not already readily available. I will agree about better lighting and HVAC for new trains.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I was in New York in the weekend and people were crammed in standing 3-4 abreast, I almost took a picture just to refute that, its 100% false, the only way people are standing in orderly lines is when the train is not really busy.

Heres a picture: http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...-yorkers-c.jpg

You Google pictures, I Google pictures. Even in yours, people are really only bunched up around the doors. In the space between the seats, I'm counting only two, two, one, two people as you go down the car. Any more would seem to require either less personal space than even the Japanese are willing to endure, or quantum physics.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

And with regard to Cubic and the Compass system the issues were actually in large part to do with Translinks demands of having zone fares on buses etc. it had little to do with Cubics actual products, and knowing their smart cards doing the things Vancouver wanted they should not have chosen them, accentures System (Presto) used in Toronto would likely have worked better.

A link: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/rollou...230/story.html

I'd very much like to see the article where they state that TransLink's insistence on zoning was the problem; anything else would seem to be a reach. All we know is that Cubic screwed up as per usual, tried to cover it up, and let TransLink take all the backlash from the media and public.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

You also mentioned how so many cities used Hyundai Rotem rolling stock which is true, however most of the cities you mentioned do not use Rotem for Metro Rolling stock but for lower traffic commuter trains (virtually all of which in the US have been plagued with problems).

The cities I mentioned (Singapore excluded) don't use Rotems or LCDs at all, that's the point. If I'm using third world examples, it's because those are mostly the cities that Hyundai Rotem supplies.

The only first world cities out side of Korea are Athens, Istanbul, Ankara and Singapore, whose H-R trains look exactly like ours. And Singapore's the only city outside of Korea to get LCDs, because they made their own... must be nice to have those kind of resources.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

There is 0 chance that having lcds is going to add 10% to the cost and 0 chance that a 17" lcd is going to cost $40,000 , a NEC 40" commercial panel costs less than 1k (https://www.necdisplay.com/p/displays/c501)

. If you don't see why thats a ridiculous suggestion I don't know what to say. Firstly, we wouldn't be using TV sized panels (40+ inch) second, they stay in a climate controlled dry area.

Rest assured, the feeling is very, very mutual.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Delhis local trains are incredibly overcrowded, old, and many do not even have doors (I've actually spent a lot of time in Delhi as it were). The trains are in an awful state, I'm not dragging anything down I'm just saying it how it is (from first hand experience riding systems there).

Vancouver, Toronto, New York AND Delhi, all while still being in school? Damn, I knew I should've gone to U of T - every day must be like the Magic friggin' School Bus.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

My point is it seems like most of the arguments you are making are extraneous and/or false, I never claimed having lcd's in our train was essential but, I don't think anyone would say it would not be a nice addition to the Canada Lines new cars. The attitude that features like these are just "fancy" extras. Is again the reason that our transit isn't great. Sure other cities may not have them right now, but most cities ordering new rail transit vehicles (which may be used for decades) in Canada have them so why oh why can't we.

Now lets get back to topic on issues directly pertaining to the Canada Line, at least we will get more trains.

Because we don't feel the need to be jealous of transit authorities who have much more spare cash and larger populations like they're kids on the playground with the latest Big Shiny Thing (TM). We'll get there when we get their resources.

No, our transit isn't great because the buses can take 15-30 minutes to show up, and because the SkyTrain barely covers a quarter of the metro region. Transit can look "sexy," but it's only great when it works well, and it works well when people get moved from Point A to Point B to Point C in the fastest time possible. Anything else is indeed a fancy extra, of which TransLink has already installed on many stations.

Yup, getting more trains is always a good thing

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

This man would like to have a word with you...

You lucky bastards!

All joking aside, there was a guy on Pricetags recently who insisted that TransLink should provide a seat for every passenger on the train. Tried pointing out that it'd require a train stretching from Olympic V. to Broadway, but nope, it's apparently just a matter of money and willpower. The conversation went exactly like the one that's been going on for the last two pages; apparently, transit is only more appealing to some people when it's just like business class.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I've gotten vocal at TransLink as I'd much rather they spend money on decent looking stations instead of putting a piece of public art inside it.

Depends on the public art - personally, I'd rather they just spend one big lump sum and give each station a permanent piece, rather than the stupid temp installations that gets replaced every few months.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Hell they could paint the interiors of Canada Line underground stations...

Partial towards tiles, myself. Of course, it's going to be a real bitch to maintain, whereas you can always just slap a new coat of paint on...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Depends on the public art - personally, I'd rather they just spend one big lump sum and give each station a permanent piece, rather than the stupid temp installations that gets replaced every few months.


Partial towards tiles, myself. Of course, it's going to be a real bitch to maintain, whereas you can always just slap a new coat of paint on...

Temporary art must be a downtown Van thing as I don't see it very often. I wish the permanent art at New West was temporary as it's not that impressive (I tried unsuccessfully to find a picture of it). Yeah art is pretty subjective...

Paint, tile - I'm not that picky. Both would likely come under fire for the money spent on them. If you want to see some interesting stations look up Stockholm. I'd be really surprised if we ever saw anything like that in our underground stations.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Because I think we can aim a little higher. The Delhi metro is competing with this in its local market .

Except those are not the trains we're getting.

So again, why is it an issue that they're ordering the same NEW AND MODERN trains as the Dehli metro?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I'm not sure if Translink looked at other rolling stock makers but given HR's poor performance I don't know why they wouldn't consider Siemens or Alstom.

Standardization keeps costs down. As it is, TransLink's already got four types of trainsets to deal with; adding a fifth is likely a bad idea.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

They could still have standardized parts!

If you're going to contract Siemens or Alston to make a Hyundai Rotem train, why not just contract Hyundai Rotem and cut out the middleman?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

It isn't a Rotem train but the parts can be very well sync'd.

For one Rotem is having a lot of problems with unreliable stock as mentioned before, and two because competition can drive the price down and get us more features.

It's not just about parts, it's about having to operate and maintain and configure a whole new train. After all, an Android is going to be completely different from a Galaxy, even if they have interchangeable components.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

After all, an Android is going to be completely different from a Galaxy, even if they have interchangeable components.

That made me actually cry. Android is an operating system. Galaxy is a series of phones that utilize the Android OS.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

That made me actually cry. Android is an operating system. Galaxy is a series of phones that utilize the Android OS.

He probably meant a Google-branded Android vs a Samsung Galaxy.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Because I think we can aim a little higher.

I think there is some misinformation because the latest ROTEM deliveries do feature a lot of the things you seem to desire. And you are right, there are a lot of "standards" that train manufacturers often have, but I reckon any deviances to local specifications would be above and beyond the agreement and would lead to more costs.

I think it's important to consider the realities of how the project was previously set up and how this dictates a lot of what can and cannot be realistically done as mentioned previously.

• Video Link

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On a more scientific note, perhaps to add a bit more of a scientific approach to train capacities, this study may be of interest.

http://docs.trb.org/prp/13-1693.pdf

• That said, I would take a critical approach to reviewing its conclusions
• This study does use train carriages of 9' and 10', whereas the MKIII on the Expo/Millennium Lines is slightly smaller at 8.5' and this does change calculation of capacities
• While this study does attempt to integrate passenger psychology in seating and standing configurations, it doesn't fully consider passengers' willingness to stand in a dense environment (e.g. two rows vs three rows of standees) and how this can impact theoretical manufacturing capacities

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Finally I would like to remind everyone to avoid personal attacks as this is not permitted.

[fredinno]

How much would it actually cost to upgrade the Canada Line platforms to 80m, and double track the Sea Is. and Richmond spurs? Those sections would pretty much have to be rebuilt, but the section in Vancouver requires only to big bigger stations, and most of the line is fairly flat.

Also, is there any plans for a station at 16th Ave? It seems like a strange gap, especially as it's on the outer part of the general Vancouver Broadway Area.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

How much would it actually cost to upgrade the Canada Line platforms to 80m, and double track the Sea Is. and Richmond spurs? Those sections would pretty much have to be rebuilt, but the section in Vancouver requires only to big bigger stations, and most of the line is fairly flat.

Also, is there any plans for a station at 16th Ave? It seems like a strange gap, especially as it's on the outer part of the general Vancouver Broadway Area.

As they're mostly underground, it's safe to assume it would be bloody expensive to extend the Canada Line stations to 80m. I think I read somewhere they're going to 'extend' (aka finish and remove the temp wall) the 40m stations soon.

I've only heard of four future stations (33rd and 57th in Vancouver, Capstan Way and YVR in Richmond). I checked and it's 1.6km between Broadway and King Edward Stations - which means putting a station in the middle means it's only about 800m between stations (roughly the spacing between Metrotown and Patterson stations). Do we really want / need stations to be that close together?