Homelessness in Calgary

[Policy Wonk]

the problem with that is it requires the slacker calgary police to come in contact with people who might be dirty or otherwise unpleasant. And we can't have the police dealing with such triviality when there are clean and sober jay walkers to ticket

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

A very low paying, labour intensive field. Are there any institutions in Calgary that would be taking these people in?

Another question I have is about the worst of all the people on our streets, the crack dealers. Just driving by the Cecil you can see people openly dealing crack, you don't have to be a genius to figure out what is going on. You see a big group of shady people standing around another shady person with their hands out, then 30 seconds later they all scatter to the wind. Don't the cops see this kind of stuff? having beat cops walking around the area isn't going to do shit, we need plain clothes cops out there ready to slap the hand cuffs on every one of these rodents every time they see them peddling that shit.

Cops cannot solve drug issues. They are plain and simple incapable of doing so. You throw one dealer in jail and another pops up in his place, because there is demand for drugs. The only solution is to relax the laws on softer drugs and cut down on the profits of criminal elements. We also need addictions treatment centres so that people can get off of the stuff.

There is this misplaced assumption that law enforcement officers are actually able to solve social problems.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Boris550

Cops cannot solve drug issues. They are plain and simple incapable of doing so. You throw one dealer in jail and another pops up in his place, because there is demand for drugs. The only solution is to relax the laws on softer drugs and cut down on the profits of criminal elements. We also need addictions treatment centres so that people can get off of the stuff.

There is this misplaced assumption that law enforcement officers are actually able to solve social problems.

With proper investigative techniques the cops SHOULD be able to work their way up the food chain, and take out the top guys. That is how it Should work, it never actually does though.

Global TV has a web survey on whether you are satisfied with the city's treatment of the homeless I am going to vote on it because Global seems to be willing to press the issue at city hall.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

With proper investigative techniques the cops SHOULD be able to work their way up the food chain, and take out the top guys. That is how it Should work, it never actually does though.

Okay, say you work your way up one organization. As soon as you finish with that one, another will emerge. This is no different from prohibition in the 1920's/30's. And it is failing for the exact same reasons.

We don't need more cops. We need a change in the laws that the cops are enforcing in the first place. REAL solutions.

Besides, we can't get more cops, given the labour shortage. There's just too many things to try to enforce in this vast city and nobody to do it.

[Calgarian]

Are you suggesting that we legalize crack?

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

Are you suggesting that we legalize crack?

Not necessarily crack (since that is just a combination of other drugs). But legalizing softer drugs such as marijuana will take away some of the demand for crack. Hell, cocaine was originally a rich white person's drug, crack is just a cheap knock off of that. But basically, having a range of legal, better choices will make it easier to regulate harder drugs. Addiction centres would also ease people off of the harder stuff.

[Policy Wonk]

and that does what to ease the homeless problem?

[Calgarian]

Police can spend more time enforcing Crack and less time on enforcing Weed. It is a small step in the right direction I think.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

and that does what to ease the homeless problem?

They won't be spending all their money on drugs? There will be less prostitutes out there dependent on their crack-shoving pimps, who just add to the homeless count? The fact that if you have a proper network of facilities, you can keep track of the homeless and help to reintegrate them into society?

johnnyc just made a good point as well.

EDIT: It would be interesting to study the effects of the safe injection site in Vancouver. I've heard that it has been quite successful.

[Calgarian]

Is Heroin a big problem here too? I know Crack and Meth are pretty bad.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by johnnyc

Is Heroin a big problem here too? I know Crack and Meth are pretty bad.

Note sure if it is a big problem or not, but the same treatment could probably be applied to those other drugs as well. Of course, Meth is pretty bad stuff.

IIRC, in Spokane they set up a seperate court for drug offences, so that meth addicts get sent to treatment facilities.

[Calgarian]

I can't comprehend what would possess someone to want to try any of that shit, you know you are going to get addicted.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Boris550

They won't be spending all their money on drugs?

Right... because junkies have such self control, "well, the price of crack is falling, I guess I could either buy more crack or put the savings into a GIC"

Cheap drugs lead to an increase in abuse, especially among recreational users and youth.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Cheap drugs lead to an increase in abuse, especially among recreational users and youth.

I'd really like to see what you use as a basis for that statement. Marijuana is legal in the Netherlands but the rate of usage is half of what it is here. And a regulated industry is better than them getting their junk in back alleys. Maybe you've been watching too much Reefer Madness...

The whole point of having addiction centres is to reduce rates of abuse. Now, I know that sociology is a little out of your grasp, but there are REASONS that people do the things they do. If we can do anything to address the structural issues in people's lives that cause them to abuse drugs, prostitute themselves, and cut them off from both housing and jobs, then we should be doing it. Oh, but wait, they are just irresponsible people who simply don't give a shit about themselves...

[e909]

Originally Posted by Boris550

I'd really like to see what you use as a basis for that statement. Marijuana is legal in the Netherlands but the rate of usage is half of what it is here. And a regulated industry is better than them getting their junk in back alleys. Maybe you've been watching too much Reefer Madness...

The whole point of having addiction centres is to reduce rates of abuse. Now, I know that sociology is a little out of your grasp, but there are REASONS that people do the things they do. If we can do anything to address the structural issues in people's lives that cause them to abuse drugs, prostitute themselves, and cut them off from both housing and jobs, then we should be doing it. Oh, but wait, they are just irresponsible people who simply don't give a shit about themselves...

Cigarettes.

Having a higher price keeps new people from starting, and makes people like me think twice every time they light one up, but in the end if you're addicted to cigarettes you're going to buy the smokes.

Same thing with alcohol.. The taxes we have on them are there because high prices give less money to consume more, among other things.

[vid]

Actually, the taxes result in my dad pawning our TV to buy a 12 pack.

Most people I know buy smokes on the reserve anyway.

[e909]

Originally Posted by vid

Actually, the taxes result in my dad pawning our TV to buy a 12 pack.

Most people I know buy smokes on the reserve anyway.

Cigs cost $2.98 a pack, for a regular non-discount brand. Every thing you pay above that is taxes.

They do make teenagers without money think twice about starting though.

[Policy Wonk]

Lumping marijuana and harder drugs together is pretty disingenious, there are not very many non-recreational marijuana users. While there are very few recreational crack or heroin users.

Equating a reduction in weed use to legalization and extrapolating that into an obvious reduction in use of hard drugs like heroin or meth is pretty naive.

Addressing structural issues in peoples lives is a great idea, unfortunately few methods that would address the core issues surrounding the hardcore homeless would be acceptable to those of you who will tolerate absolutely anything.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Lumping marijuana and harder drugs together is pretty disingenious, there are not very many non-recreational marijuana users. While there are very few recreational crack or heroin users.

True. And it's the same person who sells both. You think he might have some motivation to 'up-sell'?

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Addressing structural issues in peoples lives is a great idea, unfortunately few methods that would address the core issues surrounding the hardcore homeless would be acceptable to those of you who will tolerate absolutely anything.

What, you mean methods that don't work like locking up all the drug addicts and dealers alike? Like crackdowns and drug busts? Better us tolerant idealists instead of intolerant fools.

Besides which, drugs aren't the problem. It's the abuse that follows the drugs. People may be discouraged to try out meth if they know weed is legal and widely available.