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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Montreal is Canada's second largest city but has the "weakest" stadium. .
I disagree that Montreal has the weakest stadium.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:32 PM
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I disagree that Montreal has the weakest stadium.
It's the least ideal compared to Commonwealth and BMO.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I disagree that Montreal has the weakest stadium.
It objectively is. Edmonton's stadium is ready to go with minimal cost. Montreal's stadium would require hundreds of millions of dollars just for the roof alone, before getting into anything else. And considering that the stadium has practically been mothballed since the Expos left, you know there would be an immense number of costly upgrades required.

Beyond that the stadiums are comparable in size, amenities, accessibility, etc.

Incidentally, Edmonton has probably achieved more bang for the buck from Commonwealth Stadium than any other city in Canada has with their stadiums. To the point where I don't think the race is even close.

$21 million in 1978 to build it, $11 million in 1982 to expand it to its current size. So $32 million total for a facility that is now 40 years old and has been used constantly for football, intermittently for soccer, and has hosted three major international sports events (1978 Commonwealth Games, 1983 Universiade, 2001 IAAF Championships) and possibly one more on the way with the World Cup. Not to mention a huge array of concerts and one-off events like the first Heritage Classic.

Definitely a tribute to the idea of building it right the first time.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Very exciting news!

Anyone think Vancouver will try to crawl back into this after declaring they wanted no part of the initial bid? I would think should that happen, it would put a nail into Edmonton's chances

Would be great to see Canada qualify and perhaps Davies will get to play in his prime in his home town (Edmonton)
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It's the least ideal compared to Commonwealth and BMO.
Agree for Commonwealth but not for BMO. Commonwealth is the most WC-ready stadium but both BMO and the Big O need significant work in order to make them WC-ready. The work that's needed may be different but there is lots to do in both cities in anticipation of 2026.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
It objectively is. Edmonton's stadium is ready to go with minimal cost. Montreal's stadium would require hundreds of millions of dollars just for the roof alone, before getting into anything else. And considering that the stadium has practically been mothballed since the Expos left, you know there would be an immense number of costly upgrades required.
Those upgrades will happen, regardless if Montreal gets to host or not. Funding for a new retractable roof was OK'd last year.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...2017-1.4395663

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Originally Posted by ExcaliburKid View Post
Very exciting news!

Anyone think Vancouver will try to crawl back into this after declaring they wanted no part of the initial bid? I would think should that happen, it would put a nail into Edmonton's chances
That's not going to happen.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Agree for Commonwealth but not for BMO. Commonwealth is the most WC-ready stadium but both BMO and the Big O need significant work in order to make them WC-ready. The work that's needed may be different but there is lots to do in both cities in anticipation of 2026.
BMO is a fine MLS/CFL stadium but it's practically a joke that it would be considered as a World Cup site. If it were in any city other than Toronto there isn't a chance that it would be a venue. The host committee is just taking what it gets.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Agree for Commonwealth but not for BMO. Commonwealth is the most WC-ready stadium but both BMO and the Big O need significant work in order to make them WC-ready. The work that's needed may be different but there is lots to do in both cities in anticipation of 2026.
BMO does not need siginificant work to be WC-ready. They need to put up temporary seating similar to what they did for the Heritage Classic/Grey Cup. That's literally it. Perhaps they can construct additional amenities but it's not as far off as people make it out to be.

Olympic Stadium is crumbling and is the least ideal for a number of reasons (infrastructure, sightlines, multi-use headaches). It's millions of dollars for a stadium with no full-time tenant, which goes against the idea of investing funding into facilities for continued long-term use.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
BMO is a fine MLS/CFL stadium but it's practically a joke that it would be considered as a World Cup site. If it were in any city other than Toronto there isn't a chance that it would be a venue. The host committee is just taking what it gets.
I can only imagine if it was New Mosaic at BMO's location. That would be beautiful.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I think Canada is very capable of hosting the World Cup without spending ludicrous amounts of public dollars.

As the number of countries vying for WC rights dwindles, it's going to become a buyer's market pretty soon. The days of blank cheques for FIFA are ending. In a decade when there's no one left to take on the World Cup, Canada would be in a position to step forward as a host with a full set of facilities, sound logistics in place and money to spend on tickets.

There's no magic to it, just because Canada is not a world soccer power has no bearing on our ability to manage the logistics of this event. If Qatar can do it, Canada certainly can.

But those events can certainly still come to pass... I suppose that being a tagalong to the US bid won't necessarily ruin our chances at being a solo host a decade or two down the road from 2026.
I don't doubt our ability to organize the event and execute it in a professional manner. I'd say the difference between us and Qatar lies somewhere in our willingness to bribe the necessary committee members, build 4+ new FIFA-quality stadiums, and import tens of thousands of modern-day slaves that are subject to the most abhorrent working conditions on the planet.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I don't doubt our ability to organize the event and execute it in a professional manner. I'd say the difference between us and Qatar lies somewhere in our willingness to bribe the necessary committee members, build 4+ new FIFA-quality stadiums, and import tens of thousands of modern-day slaves that are subject to the most abhorrent working conditions on the planet.
That's the point though, once FIFA runs out of those types of countries to exploit, Canada will suddenly be quite an appealing option.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
That's the point though, once FIFA runs out of those types of countries to exploit, Canada will suddenly be quite an appealing option.
Perhaps, but there will always be a European country willing to take on the event with 90% of the facilities already available from their domestic league. It would truly have to be a buyer's market for them to reduce their facility requirements to the point where Canada could qualify without building or significantly upgrading multiple locations.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
BMO is a fine MLS/CFL stadium but it's practically a joke that it would be considered as a World Cup site. If it were in any city other than Toronto there isn't a chance that it would be a venue. The host committee is just taking what it gets.
This is what I was getting at.

If Canada were the sole host of the tournament there is no way in hell that BMO would get to host playoff round matches even with the "upgrades" that JHikka has described.

It looks like the home ground of some second-rate European club that hops in between the first and second divisions from year to year.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ExcaliburKid View Post
Very exciting news!

Anyone think Vancouver will try to crawl back into this after declaring they wanted no part of the initial bid? I would think should that happen, it would put a nail into Edmonton's chances

Would be great to see Canada qualify and perhaps Davies will get to play in his prime in his home town (Edmonton)
Maybe if we can get rid of the NDP but I sadly doubt that Vancouver will be hosting anything. I guess the money of many soccer fans in Vancouver will be going to Seattle and/or Edmonton.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:55 PM
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Perhaps, but there will always be a European country willing to take on the event with 90% of the facilities already available from their domestic league. They would have to significantly reduce their facility requirements for Canada to qualify without building or significantly upgrading multiple locations.
Not necessarily. Qatar is cutting back from 12 to 8 or 9 venues. If Canada could swing a deal to even go with 10 venues, then we'd be all set. You'd have venues ready to go in:

-Vancouver
-Edmonton
-Regina (augmented with temporary seating)
-Winnipeg (augmented with temporary seating)
-Toronto
-Montreal
-Ottawa (augmented with temporary seating)
-Hamilton (augmented with temporary seating)

Calgary's thinking about building a new stadium anyway and they'll probably have one by then, so that's 9. Halifax is probably going to build one eventually too at some point, so that's 10, all holding at least 40,000 fans just like Qatar.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
BMO does not need siginificant work to be WC-ready. They need to put up temporary seating similar to what they did for the Heritage Classic/Grey Cup. That's literally it. Perhaps they can construct additional amenities but it's not as far off as people make it out to be.

Olympic Stadium is crumbling and is the least ideal for a number of reasons (infrastructure, sightlines, multi-use headaches). It's millions of dollars for a stadium with no full-time tenant, which goes against the idea of investing funding into facilities for continued long-term use.
But the point is moot because the work to upgrade the Big O was planned anyway - WC or no WC. They'll now just adjust the schedule to accommodate the needs of FIFA and the WC.

Now, I don't doubt for a minute that Toronto will also do what's needed to make BMO comply with what's needed for the WC.

But no amount of work is going to to turn BMO into a stadium that's in the class of Commonwealth, BC Place, a reno'd Big O, or even IGF or Mosaic...
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:00 PM
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If Canada were the sole host of the tournament there is no way in hell that BMO would get to host playoff round matches even with the "upgrades" that JHikka has described.
That would be odd considering the CSA considers BMO as unofficially Canada's National Soccer Stadium. The only other venue that has a shot at competing with it is BC Place for the title. I'd understand if BC Place hosted a final over BMO but that's the only scenario I could imagine, IMO.

Canada isn't the sole host so this talking point is useless.

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It looks like the home ground of some second-rate European club that hops in between the first and second divisions from year to year.
It looks like the home ground for a bottom-tier English Premier League team. I think people highly overrate the quality of some of the European stadiums at higher levels. Some of them are not great stadiums.

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But the point is moot because the work to upgrade the Big O was planned anyway - WC or no WC. They'll now just adjust the schedule to accommodate the needs of FIFA and the WC.
It's still a terrible multi-use stadium bereft with problems. It just happens to have a lot of seats and some nostalgia.

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Now, I don't doubt for a minute that Toronto will also do what's needed to make BMO comply with what's needed for the WC.
Temporary seating is all that's technically needed. The difference between upgrades to BMO and upgrade to Olympic is that BMO actually has multiple tenants (MLS, CFL, CSA) that would benefit from the long-term investment into the facility. Upgrading BMO makes more sense than upgrading Olympic, whether or not that funding was already in place.

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But no amount of work is going to to turn BMO into a stadium that's in the class of Commonwealth, BC Place, a reno'd Big O, or even IGF or Mosaic...
I don't understand this train of thought. BMO isn't some garbage heap in the middle of a field. It's a pretty great sports venue, IMO.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:01 PM
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But no amount of work is going to to turn BMO into a stadium that's in the class of Commonwealth, BC Place, a reno'd Big O, or even IGF or Mosaic...
BMO is obviously in Toronto, but it reflects a very Winnipeggy mentality when it comes to infrastructure... build the absolute rock bottom minimum you can get away with and then awkwardly add on more as required. So on that level I appreciate it.

But as a World Cup venue, it's like having the Queen visit for lunch and then sitting down to eat at a picnic table in your cleared out garage, with the lawnmower and random cardboard boxes in the background.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Not necessarily. Qatar is cutting back from 12 to 8 or 9 venues. If Canada could swing a deal to even go with 10 venues, then we'd be all set. You'd have venues ready to go in:

-Vancouver
-Edmonton
-Regina (augmented with temporary seating)
-Winnipeg (augmented with temporary seating)
-Toronto
-Montreal
-Ottawa (augmented with temporary seating)
-Hamilton (augmented with temporary seating)

Calgary's thinking about building a new stadium anyway and they'll probably have one by then, so that's 9. Halifax is probably going to build one eventually too at some point, so that's 10, all holding at least 40,000 fans just like Qatar.
I don't want to defend Qatar, obviously I think the whole tournament there is a disgrace, but their capacity is still higher. They are building 5 40,000 people stadiums, a 60,000, and an 85,000 person stadium. Most of Canada's venues would require their maxed out capacities with temporary seating. Most of us probably don't care, but FIFA would probably look down on that. Of course the biggest issue is we lack that massive signature venue to host the finals that can be plastered over all of the marketing material.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Of course the biggest issue is we lack that massive signature venue to host the finals that can be plastered over all of the marketing material.
BC Place, a reno'd Big O or even a temporarily modified Rogers Centre () would do the trick for that.
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