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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It looks like the home ground for a bottom-tier English Premier League team..
That's what I basically said.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:09 PM
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I don't want to defend Qatar, obviously I think the whole tournament there is a disgrace, but their capacity is still higher. They are building 5 40,000 people stadiums, a 60,000, and an 85,000 person stadium. Most of Canada's venues would require their maxed out capacities with temporary seating. Most of us probably don't care, but FIFA would probably look down on that. Of course the biggest issue is we lack that massive signature venue to host the finals that can be plastered over all of the marketing material.
Of that list I gave you, I'm pretty sure all of those venues could be expanded to hold at least 40,000. It might be tough in Ottawa, Hamilton and possibly Halifax depending on what ultimately gets built there, but none of them could be dismissed out of hand. Vancouver can do 55,000, and Montreal about 65,000. Edmonton can be expanded temporarily or permanently to at least 70,000 (I recall the discussion they had about doing that prior to the 2001 IAAFs).

So at most, the only purpose-built stadium you might need is if Canada decides to build a national soccer venue, most likely in Toronto, capable of holding around 75,000 fans. But even that is not really an unreasonable or entirely frivolous expense given that Canada is a well off nation with a growing interest in soccer.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:10 PM
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At that level of renovations for Olympic Stadium you're probably starting to wonder why you don't jut tear it down and start from scratch.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Temporary seating is all that's technically needed. The difference between upgrades to BMO and upgrade to Olympic is that BMO actually has multiple tenants (MLS, CFL, CSA) that would benefit from the long-term investment into the facility. Upgrading BMO makes more sense than upgrading Olympic, whether or not that funding was already in place.
That doesn't really matter though as upgrading BMO or renovating the Big O is not an "either/or" thing.

There are practically no "communicating vessels" in terms of the decision-making or even financing regarding whatever gets done to either stadium.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:14 PM
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Of that list I gave you, I'm pretty sure all of those venues could be expanded to hold at least 40,000. It might be tough in Ottawa, Hamilton and possibly Halifax depending on what ultimately gets built there, but none of them could be dismissed out of hand. .
Maybe I am not understanding your angle but not sure how you think it would be "tough" for Ottawa and Hamilton. At least not logistically. They have plenty of open space beyond the end zones to expand into. Again, if I am reading this right Mosaic and IGF would be more challenging given they are more configured as enclosed bowls. (Which is WAY more attractive IMO, but that's another topic.)
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
At that level of renovations for Olympic Stadium you're probably starting to wonder why you don't jut tear it down and start from scratch.
The short answer is that they can't afford to tear it down... they're handcuffed to that thing. Even though the RIO's demolition cost estimates are verging on absurd (not surprising given that they have a vested interest in preserving it), no one doubts it would run north of $100 million to demolish the facility.

At that point you might as well just throw a few patches on it and squeeze a couple more decades out of it. The fact that Montreal doesn't have any sports teams constantly clamoring for the latest and greatest (CFL and MLS teams have their own venues anyway) means that there is less pressure to build something new anyway.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
So at most, the only purpose-built stadium you might need is if Canada decides to build a national soccer venue, most likely in Toronto, capable of holding around 75,000 fans. But even that is not really an unreasonable or entirely frivolous expense given that Canada is a well off nation with a growing interest in soccer.
75,000 would be quite large for a city in Canada, IMO. Something floating around 40K in Toronto would be ideal once we can start getting those numbers out consistently for friendlies or qualifying matches. The Women's team usually draws between 20K/25K for friendlies.

In the 2026 FIFA Bid Evaluation Report there's a table highlighting city size and expected attendance. This is for stadiums yet-to-be-built and is basically used to consider stadium capacity size as a "potential sustainability risk".

CIES sustainability study figure:
City Size / Attendance expected
100,000 / 15,607
200,000 / 19,921
500,000 / 27,505
1,000,000 / 35,108
2,000,000 / 44,813
3,000,000 / 51,690
4,000,000 / 57,200
5,000,000 / 61,875

Montreal and Cincinnati are the only two stadiums in the United Bid requiring renovation work (combined totalling $335M).
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:19 PM
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I don't understand this train of thought. BMO isn't some garbage heap in the middle of a field. It's a pretty great sports venue, IMO.
I am not saying it's garbage or even that it's bad. But as the main stadium for multiple football codes in a metro of 6 million people that is the metropolis of a G7 country, "great" is quite a stretch to describe it. It's hardly impressive.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:22 PM
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Maybe I am not understanding your angle but not sure how you think it would be "tough" for Ottawa and Hamilton. At least not logistically. They have plenty of open space beyond the end zones to expand into. Again, if I am reading this right Mosaic and IGF would be more challenging given they are more configured as enclosed bowls. (Which is WAY more attractive IMO, but that's another topic.)
Mosaic and IGF are explicitly designed for temporary expansion to 40,000. IGF was partly expanded once before, in one end for the 2015 Grey Cup.

With regard to Hamilton and Ottawa I know they're capable of adding temp seats but I don't know how many they can add before it starts to become a problem. I'm assuming you can probably jam an extra 16,000 seats into both, but I wasn't 100% sure which is why I qualified my comments.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
75,000 would be quite large for a city in Canada, IMO.
If we're being honest, Canada doesn't really have enough of a domestic () spectator sports culture that would make a brand new 75,000-seat stadium in Toronto make sense.

Of course an NFL team in that city would change everything...
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:23 PM
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I am not saying it's garbage or even that it's bad. But as the main stadium for multiple football codes in a metro of 6 million people that is the metropolis of a G7 country, "great" is quite a stretch to describe it. It's hardly impressive.
It's a great venue for mid-major league (CFL/MLS) clubs to play league games in. No question there.

But yes, it is more than a little underwhelming as a venue for the biggest major international tournament in the pre-eminent city of a G7 country. Rogers Centre would be much better in that regard, although the thought of making this problem go away by throwing money at Rogers is not the most appealing idea either.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:25 PM
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But as the main stadium for multiple football codes in a metro of 6 million people that is the metropolis of a G7 country, "great" is quite a stretch to describe it. It's hardly impressive.
Hey, maybe hosting a major international event there will be enough of a reason to upgrade it to make it more impressive!

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Rogers Centre would be much better in that regard, although the thought of making this problem go away by throwing money at Rogers is not the most appealing idea either.
Watching soccer in Rogers Centre would be dreadful. Similar to watching soccer in any baseball-oriented stadium. It would look ridiculous to have the largest soccer tournament in the world hosted in a baseball stadium in our largest city.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:25 PM
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If we're being honest, Canada doesn't really have enough of a domestic () spectator sports culture that would make a brand new 75,000-seat stadium in Toronto make sense.

Of course an NFL team in that city would change everything...
OK, if 75,000 is too much then go with 50,000 and temporary seats. I'm not hung up too much on the details. But the point is that if we need one big finals venue, then a big new stadium in Toronto would likely make the most sense.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:27 PM
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Mosaic and IGF are explicitly designed for temporary expansion to 40,000. IGF was partly expanded once before, in one end for the 2015 Grey Cup.

With regard to Hamilton and Ottawa I know they're capable of adding temp seats but I don't know how many they can add before it starts to become a problem. I'm assuming you can probably jam an extra 16,000 seats into both, but I wasn't 100% sure which is why I qualified my comments.
They held the 1988 Grey Cup at the old Lansdowne Park and attendance was 50,000.

Of course the stadium was a bit different then. The south side stands were quite a bit larger. Total capacity for the two grandstands was likely close to 30,000 as opposed to 24,000 today.

I guess they added two huge 10,000 seat grandstands at either end of the field.

You couldn't do that today at the west end of the field since they built a condo tower there.

But if they were looking for 40,000 capacity (as opposed to 50,000) they probably could make it work.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:28 PM
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I don't expect to see anymore Canadian cities added. It would be nice if we got more games though.

The final decision on host cities is not yet made as far as I have read.

From reports on the bid, FIFA had concerns about the lack of 5 star hotels in Edmonton and the mass transit was a concern as well.

By 2026 that should not be a issue.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:30 PM
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You couldn't do that today at the west end of the field since they build a condo tower there.

But if they were looking for 40,000 capacity (as opposed to 50,000) they probably could make it work.
The NHL 100 Classic hit 33,959.
The 105th Grey Cup hit 36,154.

Just a matter of adding a couple thousand more seats. Not difficult to squeeze some in under the condo tower. IIRC there's space for a couple thousand there.

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From reports on the bid, FIFA had concerns about the lack of 5 star hotels in Edmonton and the mass transit was a concern as well.
Edmonton has the fewest hotel rooms by quite a margin. Assuming some of the smaller US cities are cut out (Baltimore, etc.) the gap will be even larger. Toronto is listed at 33K hotel rooms, Montreal 14K, and Edmonton 6K.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:37 PM
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By 2078 Regina would still have an issue with 5-star hotels. Actually, Regina would have a problem if the requirement were 2-star hotels.

For those planning on traveling to the next World Cup...

Current weather in Doha, Qatar (7:00pm local time): 40C, 13% humidity. It only hit 43C today. Overnight low of 33C.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:38 PM
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For those planning on traveling to the next World Cup...

Current weather in Doha, Qatar (7:00pm local time): 40C, 13% humidity. It only hit 43C today. Overnight low of 33C.
Qatar's World Cup will be played in November/December 2022.

IIRC they're air-conditioning all of their stadiums.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:39 PM
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Qatar's World Cup will be played in November/December 2022.
When the average high is in the low to mid 20s C IIRC.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2018, 4:42 PM
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They held the 1988 Grey Cup at the old Lansdowne Park and attendance was 50,000.

Of course the stadium was a bit different then. The south side stands were quite a bit larger. Total capacity for the two grandstands was likely close to 30,000 as opposed to 24,000 today.

I guess they added two huge 10,000 seat grandstands at either end of the field.

You couldn't do that today at the west end of the field since they built a condo tower there.

But if they were looking for 40,000 capacity (as opposed to 50,000) they probably could make it work.
The 2004 Grey Cup had a crowd north of 50,000 too. But the stadium has been reconfigured so much since then I'm not sure what's possible, but as has been pointed out 40,000 should not be too much of a stretch.
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