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  #121  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Not really that different from what is going to happen at the Big O for the 2026 World Cup though...
Except that Skydome is owned by Rogers and not the City of Toronto.

Either Rogers would have to spend the money themselves for a single event they won't really make money on (and displace the Jays to boot, costing revenue) or government will have to chip in. The optics of government helping a private company improve their stadium will be received rather dimly.
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  #122  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:21 AM
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What about Rogers Centre with the roof open with a grass field then?

(I realize that Rogers Centre won't be hosting anything during this WC. I just don't get why people are so categorically dissing it in order to defend BMO to the hilt.)
A temporary grass field has no legacy value, as it'll go back to being a baseball stadium which still hasn't figured out how to make grass survive in a cavernous facility. Plus its soccer configuration capacity will be the same as an expanded BMO (about 45000) , with BMO having better sightlines and a better atmosphere. As sh!t as some people think it is, BMO is considered one of the top soccer specific stadiums for atmosphere and authenticity. An upgrade will only improve its plus points, and the legacy value is huge considering it has a number of tenants who prefer a grass outdoor facility.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 6:09 AM
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What do people think are the odds that Canada doesn't get an automatic berth? Given the expanded number of teams for CONCACAF I highly doubt the US and Mexico would fail to qualify under their own merits, which results in Canada being the only team which would really benefit from a berth. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't get one. On the other hand, if we didn't get one I don't think we should be hosting. I'd rather see Canada drop out in that sense because they'd be the first host to not get one.

Also, which city is going to get the Round of 16 game, why is it Toronto, and why does Montreal/Edmonton deserve it more?
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  #124  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 7:14 AM
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What do people think are the odds that Canada doesn't get an automatic berth? Given the expanded number of teams for CONCACAF I highly doubt the US and Mexico would fail to qualify under their own merits, which results in Canada being the only team which would really benefit from a berth. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't get one. On the other hand, if we didn't get one I don't think we should be hosting. I'd rather see Canada drop out in that sense because they'd be the first host to not get one.

Also, which city is going to get the Round of 16 game, why is it Toronto, and why does Montreal/Edmonton deserve it more?
The # of teams has been expanded by 50%, would be surprised if we don't get a berth.
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  #125  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime View Post

Also, which city is going to get the Round of 16 game, why is it Toronto, and why does Montreal/Edmonton deserve it more?
The main reason I can think of higher seating capacity, so more ticket sales and more $$$$.
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  #126  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Except that Skydome is owned by Rogers and not the City of Toronto.

Either Rogers would have to spend the money themselves for a single event they won't really make money on (and displace the Jays to boot, costing revenue) or government will have to chip in. The optics of government helping a private company improve their stadium will be received rather dimly.
The only reason we're talking about Rogers here is because some people seem to feel the need to bring it down in order to defensively "bring up" BMO.

Rogers definitely feels more like a "prestige" stadium than BMO, and configuring it to host World Cup games would not be that big a deal. Certainly not as big as some people are making it out to be.

But for a variety of reasons that won't happen and that's fine.
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  #127  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 1:32 PM
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We're talking about Rogers Centre because most of us know that it will never work for a soccer stadium. It is indeed a very big deal to convert it to a FIFA-quality stadium today, let alone in 8 years when the Jays will likely have completed massive renovations that permanently fix it as a ball-park only venue.

Even if Shapiro can't convince the board to undertake renovations to the scale that he wants, you are going to require someone (certainly not the city or Rogers) to both figure out how, and pay the astronomical cost for implementing a World Cup-quality grass field.
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  #128  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:39 PM
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The MLB is already telling the Jays that they need to renovate RC to make it more baseball friendly (open areas, open bars, etc.). There's no way today's RC would be the same RC that sees a WC2026. The entire reason Shapiro was brought in was to spearhead renovation efforts similar to what he did in Cleveland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime View Post
What do people think are the odds that Canada doesn't get an automatic berth?
Pretty low, IMO. Canada's been getting good connections into CONCACAF and FIFA with a number of high-ranking executives. Would be shocking if we didn't get an automatic hosting berth.

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Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime View Post
Also, which city is going to get the Round of 16 game, why is it Toronto, and why does Montreal/Edmonton deserve it more?
Toronto, probably. More hotel rooms, better flight connections, closer proximity to other venues, security, better training venues...these are all criteria FIFA considers beyond just number of seats. It's also the marquee city for Canada in the three-way bid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acajack
The main reason I can think of higher seating capacity, so more ticket sales and more $$$$.
The real $$$ in this tournament is going to be in the US stadiums. Besides, BMO's increased capacity won't be that far off Edmonton and Montreal in the end. Nothing that a slight bump in ticket sales can fix, anyway.

If this WC bid was focused solely on seating capacity they'd be playing every game at the Rose Bowl and Michigan Stadium.
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  #129  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The only reason we're talking about Rogers here is because some people seem to feel the need to bring it down in order to defensively "bring up" BMO.

Rogers definitely feels more like a "prestige" stadium than BMO, and configuring it to host World Cup games would not be that big a deal. Certainly not as big as some people are making it out to be.

But for a variety of reasons that won't happen and that's fine.
It's as though we expect the world to be impressed by BMO Field filled with a ton of temporary bleachers, but the reality is that as you have pointed out, most of the world would look at BMO and wonder why we're using a 2 Bundesliga calibre venue to host World Cup games. It's mildly embarrassing and I don't see why as a country we wouldn't put our best foot forward using our best facilities.

I have never heard anything to the effect that RC is no longer capable of being used as a multipurpose venue. AFAIK the seats still move just as they always did. I get that if Rogers doesn't want to host then that's their prerogative, but it's still no less embarrassing for Canada.

I mean, if it's such a great idea to put WC games in a second tier stadium, it makes me wonder why Montreal doesn't put its WC games in Saputo Stadium.
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  #130  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:48 PM
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I mean, if it's such a great idea to put WC games in a second tier stadium, it makes me wonder why Montreal doesn't put its WC games in Saputo Stadium.
And put up temporary bleachers all around it too! (Just being facetious, but...)
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  #131  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:53 PM
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The thing is, all this effort would be to play a couple of "round of 32" games and potentially one "round of 16" game. I get that the whole idea of impressing the rest of the world is important, but that would be hard to justify for two or three games.
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  #132  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I have never heard anything to the effect that RC is no longer capable of being used as a multipurpose venue. AFAIK the seats still move just as they always did. I get that if Rogers doesn't want to host then that's their prerogative, but it's still no less embarrassing for Canada.
It's more embarrassing for Canada to host games at RC than at BMO, IMO.

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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I mean, if it's such a great idea to put WC games in a second tier stadium, it makes me wonder why Montreal doesn't put its WC games in Saputo Stadium.
Saputo doesn't have the space to temporarily add seats, IIRC. If you're tearing down the West Stand to build a larger stand in its place it doesn't make much sense from a logistics perspective. The Impact use Olympic for any match they think might draw over 25K/30K and they would likely not routinely sell out a 30K Saputo left to them after WC2026. The legacy ceiling from permanent upgrades at Saputo isn't as high as the potential legacy ceiling at BMO due mostly to the fact that TFC draws better and CSA utilizes BMO more than Saputo.

Saputo was one of the provisional stadiums suggested early on in the process along with Olympic.
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  #133  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:54 PM
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I am embarrassed that BMO field will be one of Canada's three venues for our first world cup . BC place would have been better as a third stadium. Even Winnipeg or Regina could have provided something better.
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  #134  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It's more embarrassing for Canada to host games at RC than at BMO, IMO.
Why do you say that? (Assuming that logistical hurdles like the prime of the Blue Jays' summer home schedule could get worked around.)
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  #135  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post

Toronto, probably. More hotel rooms, better flight connections, closer proximity to other venues, security, better training venues...these are all criteria FIFA considers beyond just number of seats. It's also the marquee city for Canada in the three-way bid.


The real $$$ in this tournament is going to be in the US stadiums. Besides, BMO's increased capacity won't be that far off Edmonton and Montreal in the end. Nothing that a slight bump in ticket sales can fix, anyway.

If this WC bid was focused solely on seating capacity they'd be playing every game at the Rose Bowl and Michigan Stadium.
In terms of FIFA and the international community, I don't really think they'd make much difference between Toronto or Montreal (or even Vancouver if it were still there) in terms of "the city" that will host a latter round game. (No offence to Edmonton, but that would probably test the limits though.)

CSA might have a different opinion however, and that might play into it.
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  #136  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It's more embarrassing for Canada to host games at RC than at BMO, IMO.



Saputo doesn't have the space to temporarily add seats, IIRC. If you're tearing down the West Stand to build a larger stand in its place it doesn't make much sense from a logistics perspective. The Impact use Olympic for any match they think might draw over 25K/30K and they would likely not routinely sell out a 30K Saputo left to them after WC2026. The legacy ceiling from permanent upgrades at Saputo isn't as high as the potential legacy ceiling at BMO due mostly to the fact that TFC draws better and CSA utilizes BMO more than Saputo.

Saputo was one of the provisional stadiums suggested early on in the process along with Olympic.
A new west stand at Saputo augmented by temporary seating is certainly possible but let's face it, it would still be rather underwhelming as a venue.

I'm sure that BMO is capable of meeting the minimum requirements of hosting WC games, but there is no question that RC has much more of a big time feel. However, I realize that if Rogers isn't interested then there isn't much that can be done... you have to take what you can get.
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  #137  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:03 PM
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Why do you say that? (Assuming that logistical hurdles like the prime of the Blue Jays' summer home schedule could get worked around.)
Rogers Centre is a giant concrete slab which won't be a multipurpose stadium by the time 2026 rolls around. It's very clearly a baseball stadium, is known as a baseball stadium, and is viewed as a baseball stadium. I can't stress enough how odd it would be for people viewing a Toronto World Cup game to see games shoe-horned in to a stadium not primarily suited for soccer. Multipurpose football stadiums get a bit of a pass since the field dimensions are more or less the same, and why bids from places like Australia get a bit of a pass when they propose using their Aussie Rules stadiums. I would have had the same grievances had Australia won their 2022 bid using cricket stadiums.

BMO is the soccer stadium in Toronto, is the stadium preferred by CSA for CMNT matches, and is the stadium used by Canada's biggest soccer team. It would be bizarre not to take the opportunity to upgrade it and provide the legacy commitments that would bring.

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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
In terms of FIFA and the international community, I don't really think they'd make much difference between Toronto or Montreal

CSA might have a different opinion however, and that might play into it.
I'm fairly certain the CSA and FIFA consider Toronto the marquee city.
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  #138  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Rogers Centre is a giant concrete slab which won't be a multipurpose stadium by the time 2026 rolls around. It's very clearly a baseball stadium, is known as a baseball stadium, and is viewed as a baseball stadium. I can't stress enough how odd it would be for people viewing a Toronto World Cup game to see games shoe-horned in to a stadium not primarily suited for soccer. Multipurpose football stadiums get a bit of a pass since the field dimensions are more or less the same, and why bids from places like Australia get a bit of a pass when they propose using their Aussie Rules stadiums. I would have had the same grievances had Australia won their 2022 bid using cricket stadiums.

BMO is the soccer stadium in Toronto, is the stadium preferred by CSA for CMNT matches, and is the stadium used by Canada's biggest soccer team. It would be bizarre not to take the opportunity to upgrade it and provide the legacy commitments that would bring.



I'm fairly certain the CSA and FIFA consider Toronto the marquee city.


You are aware that Rogers Centre was designed to accommodate rectangular fields, right? And that it is a multipurpose football stadium and not built around a baseball field the way that Wrigley Field is?



It didn't cease being capable of handling rectangular fields when the Argos left...
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  #139  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
A new west stand at Saputo augmented by temporary seating is certainly possible but let's face it, it would still be rather underwhelming as a venue.

I'm sure that BMO is capable of meeting the minimum requirements of hosting WC games, but there is no question that RC has much more of a big time feel. However, I realize that if Rogers isn't interested then there isn't much that can be done... you have to take what you can get.
I think we're both aware that the ship regarding RC and this WC sailed a long time ago. That's why it's BMO that is in the bid.

We're just engaging in a mental exercise with our friends here!
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  #140  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2018, 3:19 PM
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I don't get the hate for BMO...I've never been to a game there but it presents well on tv, now that it has been expanded. it looks like a soccer stadium.
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