No more Wal-Mart in the "center plan"

[Musquodoboit County]

NYC has no Walmarts. Imagine that! Some say it's because Walmart refuses to pay the high taxes on big lots. Just wondering with the last Walmart in the city center plan area being at Mumford and the objective of redevelopment there; it may be gone. But where will it go ? Spryfield? Middle Sackville? Tantallon?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Musquodoboit County

NYC has no Walmarts. Imagine that! Some say it's because Walmart refuses to pay the high taxes on big lots. Just wondering with the last Walmart in the city center plan area being at Mumford and the objective of redevelopment there; it may be gone. But where will it go ? Spryfield? Middle Sackville? Tantallon?

Pretty sure the plan includes having Walmart or that type of store still there.

[alps]

The conceptual plan for that site was developed by the former owner of the Halifax Shopping Centre, which recently changed hands. I feel like that proposal is kind of up in the air.

[Keith P.]

I’m pretty sure Walmart is leasing that space and is not the owner of it. Halifax is not much like NYC.

[Nouvellecosse]

Walmart (as with most big box stores) is a mainly suburban concept anyway. A store that large is meant to serve a big catchment area meaning that most customers won't be within a reasonable walking distance so the stores are dominated by parking making them pedestrian unfriendly. And this setup encourages people to make big occasional shopping trips to buy large quantities of stuff at once to carry home in a vehicle. So even though the Mumford store is fairly close to numerous bus routes, the walk to/from transit is so awkward that a pretty small percentage of customers would be doing that.

By contrast, urban format tends to have smaller stores serving a smaller area where people are likelier to walk or take transit. People tend to make more trips buying less merch on each one. Since the store is so accessible, it makes sense to incorporate frequent visits into normal life rather than making a big "stock up" trip from time to time. So as the central part of a city grows and becomes denser and more urban, urban format stores become more appropriate and suburban stores less so. But there are already 4 other Walmarts in the metro area with the closest one in Bayers Lake being less than 5km away which is quite accessible for someone in a car. Ideally we wouldn't see it "going" anywhere in the sense of relocating and instead there would just be more urban stores across the central part of metro. Perhaps a Giant Tiger could open on the peninsula and with the HBC thinking of resurrecting the Zellers brand perhaps there could be an urban Zellers.

Or maybe Walmart can adapt and make an urban format location, but they don't seem to be very good at that. Other big box chains like Costco, Canadian Tire, Best Buy, and Ikea all have some decent examples of urban format stores but while Walmart has experimented, it hasn't seemed to find anything that worked very well.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Or maybe Walmart can adapt and make an urban format location, but they don't seem to be very good at that. Other big box chains like Costco, Canadian Tire, Best Buy, and Ikea all have some decent examples of urban format stores but while Walmart has experimented, it hasn't seemed to find anything that worked very well.

Walmart's absence from NYC is well documented and is largely the result of local opposition more than not being able to adapt to the city. It's certainly doable; Target has numerous locations in Manhattan and the other boroughs (not sure about Staten Island).

[Nouvellecosse]

While each case is different, the opposition is often because Walmart tends to transform their urban locations into enclaves of suburbia with copious parking rather than adapting to the setting. People in urban neighbourhoods don't tend to want these huge generic stores with parking craters so the opposition is in part because of the incompatibility of such stores in those settings. There are several examples of Walmarts with more urban formats struggling and closing so if the Mumford site is redeveloped and Walmart isn't allowed its suburban design, it doesn't seem likely that it can adapt as effectively as other brands have.

[Musquodoboit County]

This has been educational for me. Thanks.
By the way the reason I was thinking a relocation of the Mumford Walmart was that I've noticed kind of a trend. The number of Walmarts in a Canadian city seems to follow a "one Walmart for every 100,000 people". Halifax has 5, Winnipeg has 8, Calgary has 10 + and so on

[Musquodoboit County]

So ..if the Walmart were to "go" from Mumford, I'd think Halifax would keep a fifth Walmart somewhere being at 500,000 and all

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Walmart (as with most big box stores) is a mainly suburban concept anyway. A store that large is meant to serve a big catchment area meaning that most customers won't be within a reasonable walking distance so the stores are dominated by parking making them pedestrian unfriendly. And this setup encourages people to make big occasional shopping trips to buy large quantities of stuff at once to carry home in a vehicle. So even though the Mumford store is fairly close to numerous bus routes, the walk to/from transit is so awkward that a pretty small percentage of customers would be doing that.

By contrast, urban format tends to have smaller stores serving a smaller area where people are likelier to walk or take transit. People tend to make more trips buying less merch on each one. Since the store is so accessible, it makes sense to incorporate frequent visits into normal life rather than making a big "stock up" trip from time to time. So as the central part of a city grows and becomes denser and more urban, urban format stores become more appropriate and suburban stores less so. But there are already 4 other Walmarts in the metro area with the closest one in Bayers Lake being less than 5km away which is quite accessible for someone in a car. Ideally we wouldn't see it "going" anywhere in the sense of relocating and instead there would just be more urban stores across the central part of metro. Perhaps a Giant Tiger could open on the peninsula and with the HBC thinking of resurrecting the Zellers brand perhaps there could be an urban Zellers.

Or maybe Walmart can adapt and make an urban format location, but they don't seem to be very good at that. Other big box chains like Costco, Canadian Tire, Best Buy, and Ikea all have some decent examples of urban format stores but while Walmart has experimented, it hasn't seemed to find anything that worked very well.

Further to these points the Almon Street Rona while small in footprint does a very large Online pickup business which makes its sales per Square foot the best Rona in Nova Scotia. The Home Hardware owned by Payzants in Burnside also has a high Sales per Square foot due to the pick up business.

There is a very Urban multi story Home Depot in Vancouver that also has a healthy spsf. The only multi story HD in Canada.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The Mumford Road area is still quite suburban in nature and layout, new developments or not. I would say there's still a market for Walmart there, but it would depend upon whether the developer wants to incorporate that kind of retail/parking situation there or not. It's certainly not Manhattan, so I wouldn't rule it out.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The Mumford Road area is still quite suburban in nature and layout, new developments or not. I would say there's still a market for Walmart there, but it would depend upon whether the developer wants to incorporate that kind of retail/parking situation there or not. It's certainly not Manhattan, so I wouldn't rule it out.

Yes I was just thinking of how the area will, or I should say "may", grow and develop over time. But that could take awhile and there's no guarantee.

[Insigne]

I live in the south end in what I've come to call the "academic" south end - that is north of South Street. I see a lot of Walmart bags getting off the buses so it definitely serves more than the suburbs. Not a fan or patron of Walmart but for those on a limited budget it seems popular.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Insigne

I live in the south end in what I've come to call the "academic" south end - that is north of South Street. I see a lot of Walmart bags getting off the buses so it definitely serves more than the suburbs. Not a fan or patron of Walmart but for those on a limited budget it seems popular.

I don't think the issue/question is WHO Walmart serves, but what FORM the store takes. Some forms are just not conducive to dense urban centres. Where land is relatively cheap and taxes favourable, big-box development happens, with large warehouse-type buildings and lots of free parking. Some retailers ONLY do big-box, some ONLY do smaller format, and some try to do both.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I don't think the issue/question is WHO Walmart serves, but what FORM the store takes. Some forms are just not conducive to dense urban centres. Where land is relatively cheap and taxes favourable, big-box development happens, with large warehouse-type buildings and lots of free parking. Some retailers ONLY do big-box, some ONLY do smaller format, and some try to do both.

However, often "who" they serve defines what "form" the store takes. I won't pretend to know the specifics of their customer base, but this particular Walmart probably serves walking customers who live close by or use the transit hub located on the property... plus those who live in the general area in suburban-style neighbourhoods who will want to drive there, and therefore require parking. I suspect, though, that the drive-ins are the most lucrative customers as their cars will carry lots of stuff, and therefore enable those customers to get groceries and/or other larger items that you probably wouldn't carry on a bus, like bulk-sized paper towel packages or pieces of furniture, etc.

[Patrick Matthews]

Wal-Mart, much like McDonalds previously, seems to enjoy owning the land they operate on. It gives them more control. Case in point, they dont own Mumford, but there is debate as to what might happen with them there.

They seem to own nearly every other property (at first glance) and would enjoy more freedom than if theyre a tenant.

If you recall the Downsview debacle was created from WalMart holding a Crombie lease and played hardball when Crombie wanted to redevelop (supposedly in retaliation from a prior issue).

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Insigne

I live in the south end in what I've come to call the "academic" south end - that is north of South Street. I see a lot of Walmart bags getting off the buses so it definitely serves more than the suburbs. Not a fan or patron of Walmart but for those on a limited budget it seems popular.

What's wrong with calling it the 'student ghetto'? lol Is that now not acceptable?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Insigne

I live in the south end in what I've come to call the "academic" south end - that is north of South Street. I see a lot of Walmart bags getting off the buses so it definitely serves more than the suburbs. Not a fan or patron of Walmart but for those on a limited budget it seems popular.

Yes that's a great point. Even if it's immediate surroundings aren't very urban, it's close enough to more urban areas that many of its customers would be better served by a more urban format.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

What's wrong with calling it the 'student ghetto'? lol Is that now not acceptable?

Probably just that the term seems better suited to grungy areas more dominated by student dives hence the semi-facetious comparison to ghettos. The south end seems more mixed.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Probably just that the term seems better suited to grungy areas more dominated by student dives hence the semi-facetious comparison to ghettos. The south end seems more mixed.

Certainly the south end, the area south of South St. would not be considered grungy, but, well yes, the area between South St. and Quinpool is not grungy either but still, it has a high percentage of students in cut-up houses and older, rather squat apartment buildings traditionally occupied by mostly students, who, typically are somewhat 'impoverished'. All this aside, I've wondered how long this area can resist heavy re-development given its central location.