Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[tybuilding]

Vancouver’s Separated Bike Lanes – More Popular Than Ever

re-post of Canadian Veggie Blog

but there are different graphs on both so you can look at both I guess.

[WarrenC12]

Has somebody shown this video to city council?

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApb...layer_embedded" target="_blank">Video Link

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Has somebody shown this video to city council?

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApb...layer_embedded" target="_blank">Video Link

I would invite the city engineering staff to investigate the solutions shown in
this video.

The video is quite brilliant and you can see how small changes can make a big difference for pedestrian and cyclist safety.

I also would advise traffic design engineers to review cycling safety in their
designs as many new roads are not being built to their potential. Unfortunately current design practice in North America is not keeping up with European design when it comes cycling and pedestrian safety design.

[twoNeurons]

Very interesting video! Thanks.

[officedweller]

The small curb to protect the cylists is s great idea.

The main question I see is the location of the "Signal Stop Line" for the cyclist.
Is it before the opposing crosswalk (where it is required to protect pedestrians in the crosswalk) or is it just beyond the small curb where the cyclist "crosses" the opposing street?

If both Signal Stop Lines (for the drivers and the cyclists) are in the same place (which they should be to protect pedestrians), you are simply delaying the "point of potential interaction" between the driver and cyclist. In fact, the added distance could encourage a right-turning driver to "slip by" before the cyclist reaches the actual crossing point (i.e. cut off the cyclist).

However, by creating a 90 degree interaction between the driver and cyclist you increase visibility for the cyclist, especially in cases where the driver is stopped before making the right turn and a cyclist proceeds through the intersection at speed.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The small curb to protect the cylists is s great idea.

The main question I see is the location of the "Signal Stop Line" for the cyclist.
Is it before the opposing crosswalk (where it is required to protect pedestrians in the crosswalk) or is it just beyond the small curb where the cyclist "crosses" the opposing street?

In some respects, you are simply delaying the "point of potential interaction" between the driver and cyclist.

However, by creating a 90 degree interaction between the driver and cyclist you increase visibility for the cyclist, especially in cases where the driver is stopped before making the right turn and a cyclist proceeds through the intersection at speed.

The other video shows where cyclists wait before crossing the street which is at corner behind the protected island.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5HDN9fUlqU8" target="_blank">Video Link

[WarrenC12]

Are right turns on a red light allowed in the Netherlands? I can see where there is a great deal of "no mans land" for a car turning right on a red. It is technically illegal for cars to be ahead of the stop line turning right, but I can see them being all over the place here.

[officedweller]

That's what I was wondering -
That means the cyclists conflict with pedestrians in the opposing crosswalk (who have a "walk" signal) before getting to the point where the cyclists wait for the light.
That may be OK in low pedestrian areas - but in high pedestrain areas, it wouldn't work.
Ultimately, it would depend on the ability of the cyclists to yield right-of-way to the pedestrians before proceeding to their waiting area.

[officedweller]

Courier article on the Comox-Helmcken greenway:

http://www.vancourier.com/Talks+Como...547/story.html

...

Half of the initial workshops on the Comox-Helmcken route have concentrated on input from seniors who want numerous places to sit and rest, particularly on hills, smooth sidewalks for wheelchairs and scooters, lighting that would make them feel comfortable to go out at night, access to bathrooms and adequate street crossing times.

...

Michelle Fortin, spokesperson for the West End Mayor’s Advisory Committee, notes residents in a recent survey said transit, improved safety for pedestrians, cyclists and drivers and more green space were key concerns.

She wonders how motorists who regularly use Comox will feel about the plans, but she notes many residents of the West End don’t drive.

“One of the things that people have talked about over the years has been bus transport up Nelson Street, for instance, and it may be that greening one [route] allows an opportunity to have another be more of a transit route,” Fortin said.

Public consultation will continue over the fall and winter with project approval expected in spring 2012. If approved, construction on the greenway would begin next fall.

...

For web version only: An open house on the greenway happens tonight, Sept. 27, from 5 to 8 p.m. in the Exhibition Hall at the Roundhouse Community Centre.

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/Talks+Como...#ixzz1ZBb2CdBM

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are right turns on a red light allowed in the Netherlands? I can see where there is a great deal of "no mans land" for a car turning right on a red. It is technically illegal for cars to be ahead of the stop line turning right, but I can see them being all over the place here.

From WIKIPEDIA: Wikipedia

In European Union member states in general, it is illegal to turn on a red light, unless it is mentioned otherwise. This can be made clear by using a green arrow on a red light, a flashing amber arrow with a red light or a permanent green board next to the red light.

In the Netherlands, bicycles are occasionally allowed to turn right on a red light. Wherever this is the case, a written sign "rechtsaf voor fietsers vrij" (right turn free for cyclists) or "rechtsaf voor (brom)fietsers vrij" (right turn free for cyclists and mopeds) is present. In practice, especially in large cities such as Amsterdam, cyclists rarely stop for traffic lights on right turns even if a sign is not present.[citation needed]

In France right turn on red without stop is allowed when a separate arrow-shaped yellow light is flashing but this color means drivers do not have priority. They must check if any pedestrian is crossing before turning and must give way to possible vehicle coming from another way.
Like in the Netherlands, France has a roadsign that allows cyclists to turn right on a red light.[6]

In Belgium Parliament currently considers the introduction of a roadsign that would allow cyclists to turn right on a red light.[7][8]


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For crosswalks cyclists would have to give right away to crossing pedestrians and not block the crosswalk.

I don't see too much problem with right turning on red for cars though. Cyclists are ahead of them still until the point where they would actually be turning past them. They would also have to make sure that pedestrians have left the cross walk.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For crosswalks cyclists would have to give right away to crossing pedestrians and not block the crosswalk.

I don't see too much problem with right turning on red for cars though. Cyclists are ahead of them still until the point where they would actually be turning past them. They would also have to make sure that pedestrians have left the cross walk.

Yeah, having the cyclists stop where shown above makes them much more visible to the drivers and gives them a jump on the drivers turning right (who, as you mention, would have to wait for pedestrians crossing alongside the cyclists.

[whatnext]

Suzanne Anton has confirmed the bike lanes will stay, if she is elected mayor:

...Anton, a cyclist herself, says removing the lanes altogether would be a waste of a $3-million investment, even if they are technically a trial.

"I don't want to tear out a piece of $3-million infrastructure if I don't have to," she says. "That's why I'm determined to find out what the problems are so they can be addressed."...

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...-to-stay-anton

[WarrenC12]

I figured as much, although I didn't think she'd tip her hand before the election.

Here's a question, would you rather have a streetcar line, or 40 times more separated bike lanes for the same price?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Suzanne Anton has confirmed the bike lanes will stay, if she is elected mayor:

Despite all the moaning and groaning and gnashing of teeth, the bike lanes just haven't been the unmitigated disaster that their opponents feared (or hoped for?), so this really isn't all that surprising.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Despite all the moaning and groaning and gnashing of teeth, the bike lanes just haven't been the unmitigated disaster that their opponents feared (or hoped for?), so this really isn't all that surprising.

Agreed. I don't see that they're much benefit, but the money's spent so it would be stupid to remove them.

[s211]

Originally Posted by IanS

Agreed. I don't see that they're much benefit, but the money's spent so it would be stupid to remove them.

You have just fallen for Gregor's machination.

[dreambrother808]

Yes... Bike lanes... The great evil. What nefarious motives Gregor must have had for installing them...

I rarely drive, and therefore see little use for auto lanes. Are they truly of little use or rather are my opinions shaped by my own circumscribed needs and experiences?

[tybuilding]

Well numbers of cyclists are increasing because of them. From the Canadian Veggie Blog

"July 2011 saw 17% more cycling trips than July 2010, while August saw an astounding 43% increase! This is a strong indication that cycling is becoming more popular with Vancouverites and the separated lanes are attracting new riders. One possible reason for this is that the Hornby separated bike lane (completed in December 2010) is creating a network effect that is making cycling downtown more appealing, and thereby encouraging more people to bike downtown via Dunsmuir."

From my experiences riding them I can see why they would attract more cyclists.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Despite all the moaning and groaning and gnashing of teeth, the bike lanes just haven't been the unmitigated disaster that their opponents feared (or hoped for?), so this really isn't all that surprising.

It's actually quite rare for anything to be an unmitgated disaster.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Yes... Bike lanes... The great evil. What nefarious motives Gregor must have had for installing them...

I rarely drive, and therefore see little use for auto lanes. Are they truly of little use or rather are my opinions shaped by my own circumscribed needs and experiences?

Maybe the next paramedic can ride a bike to the scene of your next accident.

Anyways I see where your trying to get at but I often think that the issues arent bikes versus cars versus pedestrians but simply the best way to achieve for the citizens maximum mobility and maximum capacity and maximum quality of life. What is the best balance.