HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12621  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 6:55 PM
iheartphilly's Avatar
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
Philly Rising Up!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: motherEarth
Posts: 2,322
^
Sad we lost the previous design, but I do like the fact the current design tapers the top inward. Pretty cool and unique.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12622  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 7:15 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post

Developer subs mid-rise apartment proposal for condo-and-hotel-tower plan at Old City corner


Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/news/old-ci...-20190813.html
And to add insult to injury, you had to close down the 200 Race thread....

Oh the humanity.

Last edited by Redddog; Aug 13, 2019 at 7:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12623  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 7:27 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
^
Sad we lost the previous design, but I do like the fact the current design tapers the top inward. Pretty cool and unique.
I like this design better, though I think the overall hotel/condo proposal was more exciting. I think that use in that area would have been good. This looks great, though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12624  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 7:41 PM
Knight Hospitaller's Avatar
Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Greater Philadelphia
Posts: 2,359
^ Ditto. Not to sound like the NIMBYs, but this is a nice scale and design for the neighborhood. My real objection to the prior design was its clumsiness, not its height. In addition to the original proposal, the Inky article had an image of the downsized intermediate tower design (16 stories) that I don't recall seeing before. It was less weird than the initial design but still looked like something alien glommed onto the old structure. Given that the developer/architects seemed aesthetically challenged when it came to adding the highrise component, I'm happy to take a pass on height in favor of what's now proposed. For the record, I like the Bridge (even if it wasn't executed as beautifully as the renderings), so I don't mind non-traditional architecture in the neighborhood.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12625  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 7:43 PM
65 Feet 65 Feet is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
^
Sad we lost the previous design, but I do like the fact the current design tapers the top inward. Pretty cool and unique.
A month ago I stated that the original plan for this corner was killed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12626  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 8:06 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
^ Ditto. Not to sound like the NIMBYs, but this is a nice scale and design for the neighborhood. My real objection to the prior design was its clumsiness, not its height. In addition to the original proposal, the Inky article had an image of the downsized intermediate tower design (16 stories) that I don't recall seeing before. It was less weird than the initial design but still looked like something alien glommed onto the old structure. Given that the developer/architects seemed aesthetically challenged when it came to adding the highrise component, I'm happy to take a pass on height in favor of what's now proposed. For the record, I like the Bridge (even if it wasn't executed as beautifully as the renderings), so I don't mind non-traditional architecture in the neighborhood.
I'm not against the building design specifically, just it's purpose. Rental units vs a hotel with activated ground floor is big bummer.

But honestly, anything on that corner will be a huge improvement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12627  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 9:15 PM
mcgrath618's Avatar
mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is online now
Exhausted Drexel Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: University City, Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,595
I like it. Let’s get a bar in there on the ground floor please.
__________________
Philadelphia Transportation Thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164129
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12628  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 9:51 PM
65 Feet 65 Feet is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
I like it. Let’s get a bar in there on the ground floor please.
There's a bar right next door
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12629  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2019, 11:37 PM
Knight Hospitaller's Avatar
Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Greater Philadelphia
Posts: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I'm not against the building design specifically, just it's purpose. Rental units vs a hotel with activated ground floor is big bummer.

But honestly, anything on that corner will be a huge improvement.
Yeah, more residential doesn't add much to the mix, but I'm not sure that's such a hot spot for a hotel.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12630  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 7:15 AM
PurpleWhiteOut PurpleWhiteOut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 74
I REALLY like the design. As much as we need diversified use in Philly beyond just residential, I think this makes sense here. I have a feeling they wanted to scrap the hotel since there's a lot of new competition between the W and CTC hotels finishing up.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12631  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 1:10 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut View Post
I REALLY like the design. As much as we need diversified use in Philly beyond just residential, I think this makes sense here. I have a feeling they wanted to scrap the hotel since there's a lot of new competition between the W and CTC hotels finishing up.
I think this redesign was entirely done to avoid any potential civic impediment.

If they go with this, they can start building as soon as they get their sh*t together.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12632  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 2:27 PM
UndifferentiatEd UndifferentiatEd is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 7
It looks like an 80s office block.

I love it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12633  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 5:22 PM
PhillyEngineer PhillyEngineer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 96
Was by the FDP on Monday. Having problems with my Flickr account so I can't post pictures. For a project that is supposed to open in a month there is still much to be done!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12634  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 6:07 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fitler Square (via London)
Posts: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
Yeah, more residential doesn't add much to the mix, but I'm not sure that's such a hot spot for a hotel.
I mean, you're 50 feet from Elfreth's Alley. A block from the Race Street Pier and the Fringe Festival HQ (busy round the clock during the September Festival), 1.5 blocks to Betsy Ross's house, 2 blocks to Christ Church, 3 blocks to the Revolutionary War Museum, 3 blocks to the National Constitution Center, 4 blocks to Independence Mall, 4.5 blocks to the #1 restaurant in the country - all while staying in a bustling 19th century 'hood with eclectic offerings and energy. It's not going to attract corporate clientele, but your notion that it's not "such a hot spot for a hotel" seems off.

I don't hate the new design - the angular roof is interesting - but a hotel here would have been awesome and benefited local businesses far more than a few new residences.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12635  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 6:48 PM
Knight Hospitaller's Avatar
Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Greater Philadelphia
Posts: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
I mean, you're 50 feet from Elfreth's Alley. A block from the Race Street Pier and the Fringe Festival HQ (busy round the clock during the September Festival), 1.5 blocks to Betsy Ross's house, 2 blocks to Christ Church, 3 blocks to the Revolutionary War Museum, 3 blocks to the National Constitution Center, 4 blocks to Independence Mall, 4.5 blocks to the #1 restaurant in the country - all while staying in a bustling 19th century 'hood with eclectic offerings and energy. It's not going to attract corporate clientele, but your notion that it's not "such a hot spot for a hotel" seems off.

I don't hate the new design - the angular roof is interesting - but a hotel here would have been awesome and benefited local businesses far more than a few new residences.
I'd rather have a new hotel too. It's definitely in the general neighborhood, no doubt. There just seem to be plenty of offerings even closer to the heart of the historic area. I'm not making an infallible declaration, just stating my perception. Philadelphia has always been funny that way to me (especially given how compact the city "core" really is). Unlike other cities, if something isn't super close, some folks (sometimes me included) consider it trek. A few blocks one way or the other is "too far."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12636  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2019, 9:34 PM
New2Fishtown New2Fishtown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
I like it. Let’s get a bar in there on the ground floor please.
It's absurd Old City has no full service grocery store, and there are fewer and fewer places to fit one of any size given how few large sites there are left. If this building has the footprint for one, let's get an Heirloom Market in there. It's the perfect model for the neighborhood, and yet they're moving ahead in four other neighborhoods already without any mention of Old City. It would be a huge step for the area's livability.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12637  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 12:03 PM
PHL10's Avatar
PHL10 PHL10 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Fishtown View Post
It's absurd Old City has no full service grocery store, and there are fewer and fewer places to fit one of any size given how few large sites there are left. If this building has the footprint for one, let's get an Heirloom Market in there. It's the perfect model for the neighborhood, and yet they're moving ahead in four other neighborhoods already without any mention of Old City. It would be a huge step for the area's livability.
Well, you have the ACMEs at 5th and Spruce and 2nd and Girard. Not sure if you need another large format grocery store in between the two.

I'm south of Rittenhouse Square and we don't have a full service grocery store near me but that doesn't impact my livability. We have smaller format grocery stores within a short walk and if I need to do "big shopping", I can easily get there by a longer walk, transit, Uber, or car.
__________________
No one likes me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12638  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 12:51 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bala Cynwyd
Posts: 3,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHL10 View Post
Well, you have the ACMEs at 5th and Spruce and 2nd and Girard. Not sure if you need another large format grocery store in between the two.

I'm south of Rittenhouse Square and we don't have a full service grocery store near me but that doesn't impact my livability. We have smaller format grocery stores within a short walk and if I need to do "big shopping", I can easily get there by a longer walk, transit, Uber, or car.
5th and Spruce is fairly far to carry bags of groceries for people who live in the Northeastern parts of Old City. I guess they can use 2nd and Girard, but Old City really needs something like The Rittenhouse Market at 18th and Spruce in its heart.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12639  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 2:51 PM
New2Fishtown New2Fishtown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
5th and Spruce is fairly far to carry bags of groceries for people who live in the Northeastern parts of Old City. I guess they can use 2nd and Girard, but Old City really needs something like The Rittenhouse Market at 18th and Spruce in its heart.
Yeah I should've said walkability specifically, not livability. From a groceries perspective, I think of that as living close enough to a store that can furnish you with the necessary ingredients to cook a meal, and/or a place where if you want to do all of your grocery shopping there, walking home with a few bags would not be an outrageous proposition for an able-bodied person. 99% of people would have no interest in walking from the Girard ACME back to an Old City residence, both for the sheer distance as well as how unpleasant the physical environment is for a solid stretch of that journey. The walk from 5th and Spruce is certainly more palatable, but that's besides my main point.

Old City strikes me as quite similar to Queen Village in its food access profile. The Heirloom going in at 2nd and South feels like a grand slam choice to me because you've got super high income people living within a few blocks in all directions, and yet those people have to either go to 5th and Spruce or 10th and South or the Italian Market or Delaware Ave to buy most mainstream grocery items. Why not meet them where they are? We're underserved enough and growing population enough that it's likely the existing markets would continue to thrive even as 2nd and South becomes the first choice for several thousand people. If I were the Heirloom site selection people, I'd see the same potential dynamic in Old City at a site like 2nd and Race: Sure folks can head up to Girard or down to Society Hill or order online or drive over the bridge to Wegman's, but it's likely that you'd immediately become the first go-to choice for many thousands of people if you brought them the convenience they've never had.

I guess we'll see if the market ends up agreeing with me or not. Despite all i've said, and despite my personal faith in these new smaller markets to do well, the grocery business is in such flux with Amazon and delivery meal prep programs that it isn't a guarantee that anything working now will work in a few years time. To out compete the internet, physical stores will need to provide something that you can't get digitally.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12640  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2019, 4:26 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Fishtown View Post
Yeah I should've said walkability specifically, not livability. From a groceries perspective, I think of that as living close enough to a store that can furnish you with the necessary ingredients to cook a meal, and/or a place where if you want to do all of your grocery shopping there, walking home with a few bags would not be an outrageous proposition for an able-bodied person. 99% of people would have no interest in walking from the Girard ACME back to an Old City residence, both for the sheer distance as well as how unpleasant the physical environment is for a solid stretch of that journey. The walk from 5th and Spruce is certainly more palatable, but that's besides my main point.

Old City strikes me as quite similar to Queen Village in its food access profile. The Heirloom going in at 2nd and South feels like a grand slam choice to me because you've got super high income people living within a few blocks in all directions, and yet those people have to either go to 5th and Spruce or 10th and South or the Italian Market or Delaware Ave to buy most mainstream grocery items. Why not meet them where they are? We're underserved enough and growing population enough that it's likely the existing markets would continue to thrive even as 2nd and South becomes the first choice for several thousand people. If I were the Heirloom site selection people, I'd see the same potential dynamic in Old City at a site like 2nd and Race: Sure folks can head up to Girard or down to Society Hill or order online or drive over the bridge to Wegman's, but it's likely that you'd immediately become the first go-to choice for many thousands of people if you brought them the convenience they've never had.

I guess we'll see if the market ends up agreeing with me or not. Despite all i've said, and despite my personal faith in these new smaller markets to do well, the grocery business is in such flux with Amazon and delivery meal prep programs that it isn't a guarantee that anything working now will work in a few years time. To out compete the internet, physical stores will need to provide something that you can't get digitally.
We live at 2nd and Arch and I can attest that if there was a full-service Grocery at 2nd and Race, our lives would be complete as Old Citiers. My wife walks to 5th and Spruce probably 5 times a week and while it's fine, it's about an hour round trip and the walk back can be a beyatch if you're loaded with groceries. We are big walkers so it's really not a problem. Just from a convenience perspective, an actual Old City Grocery would be pretty amazing.

Old City Market comes fairly close and serves quite well as an emergency option. They have an impressive amount of things in there that can get you by in a pinch. It's crazy expensive though. We also frequent RTM and are good for a Weggies run every other week. I've been hoping that Wegmans would just pull the lever already and build one on that wasteland between Callowhill and Spring Garden. I think with the proximity to Nolibs, Old City and the highway, that location would kill. I'm not holding my breath.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:23 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.