Should southern ontario be regarded as Canada's south?

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Stryker

But Vancover is very clearly in western Canada...

So "Western University" must definitely located there, right? - Oh, it's not!

Well, it must definitely be in Western Canada then, right?? - Oh, it's not! It's in Ontario!! In Southern Ontario! Well, that just doesn't make sense, does it?

PS. I know the whole history about why UWO is named as such, but I just just think the whole rebranding is a dumb idea.

[hipster duck]

It's pretty much agreed that London is in Southwestern Ontario, but was there a time - many years ago - when it was referred to as "Western Ontario"?

I mean, the University of Western Ontario is there, and it was founded in 1878 - when Western Canada, or really anything north and west of Muskoka - was in an embryonic stage of settlement.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by Stryker

I've been rather obsessed with the prospects of moving to london

You've been what?


And also, The US and Canada = two completely different things. Its a moot question.

[ssiguy]

Depends on your perspective.

When I was a young Londoner, "going up north" meant you were heading up to Owen Sound. At the same time you never considered going to Montreal as north even though it's north of Owen Sound.

You actually don't hear the term "Southern Ontario" very much except from people from Northern Ontario. Ontarians {except the North} just call it Ontario because the thought of Northern Ontario not being included doesn't cross their mind.

Most people in SWO do not consider KWC as part of the SW but part of the Golden Horseshoe. Year ago it may have been considered part of SWO but now that Toronto has spread it's commuters to KWC, far less so and that will continue to diminsh. Even Hmilton which was the centre of the western part of the the Golden Horseshoe is losing it's stature as it is increasingly just seen as a suburb of Toronto much like Burlington became 30 years ago.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

It's pretty much agreed that London is in Southwestern Ontario, but was there a time - many years ago - when it was referred to as "Western Ontario"?

I mean, the University of Western Ontario is there, and it was founded in 1878 - when Western Canada, or really anything north and west of Muskoka - was in an embryonic stage of settlement.

Note: "Canada West, formerly Upper Canada"

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Note: "Canada West, formerly Upper Canada"

No, what I meant was whether the area now known as Southwestern Ontario was once known as "Western Ontario". This would have been in the short period of time after Confederation but before the settlement of Western Canada (and what is known today as Northern Ontario).

[flar]

I wouldn't consider it Canada's south really, it's Southwestern Ontario. When I hear south, I think of the US south and it is not that. But yes, Southwestern Ontario has its own subtle cultural flavour. It has much in common with the rustbelt/Great Lakes region, and kind of a white, blue collar, small town mindset and strong agricultural base.

London is the "capital" of SW Ontario (sorry K-W, I grew up down there and never went to K-W for anything). Windsor is the other node, and is more strongly influenced by Michigan (as are the other border towns). I consider SW Ontario to be Essex, Kent, Lambton, Elgin, Middlesex and to a bit lesser extent Huron, Perth and Oxford.

I lived in London for several years, and always found it a bit WASPy, it's an old, well-established city, with some old money and a deeply conservative/protestant ethos. This manifests itself in any possible change in anything being controversial in London and plenty of corruption and incestuous relations in politics and business.

On the flipside, London is definitely more cultured than the rest of SW Ontario. It's really the only part of SW Ontario with an established professional/white collar/artistic/educated class. The rest is very blue collar/rural conservative, and segments of the population share the type of values that got Trump elected.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by flar

But yes, Southwestern Ontario has its own subtle cultural flavour.

When I think of SW Ontario established housing stock properties like this come to mind. Something about that colour of brick shouts SW Ontario to me. Generally less siding in the original part of a house versus eastern Ontario for example where the brick, if there is any, is usually a red/dark brown colour and siding is more common.

https://goo.gl/maps/iaF4Cm7NKy72

[eemy]

Huron, Bruce and Grey Counties are all without a doubt in SWO. The only part that I would consider separate is the Bruce Peninsula, which is its own strange little place.

I'd generally agree that London is the nucleus of SWO, although the relative influence of KW, London and Windsor varies depending on where you are. Bruce and Grey Counties and large parts of Perth seem to be more in KW's sphere of influence compared to Huron/Middlesex/Lambton which are firmly in London's sphere of influence. A lot of government and medical services are centred on London, so even in areas that have stronger economic ties with KW, London still exerts a degree of influence.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Obviously "the north" is well established in Canada. However I'd counter the question is does canada have a middle. I.e. the population center of canada is just north of toronto.

Southwestern ontario is very clearly south of this and as can be expect the region differs from the rest of canada.

I don't find SW Ontario to be exceptionally different from the rest of Canada.

In terms of how it looks and feels nature-wise, SW BC feels a lot more different to me than SW Ontario.

The people aren't significantly different either IMO. Based on travels down there and people I've known from Sarnia, Windsor, Chatham, etc. Well, there are regional differences as everywhere, but I don't find anything that makes them stand out as non-Canadians. They're not quasi-Americans as you often hear them referred to. They may be more influenced by the proximity to the U.S., but it's not as if U.S. influence wasn't highly ubiquitous elsewhere in the country as well.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Depends on your perspective.



You actually don't hear the term "Southern Ontario" very much except from people from Northern Ontario. Ontarians {except the North} just call it Ontario because the thought of Northern Ontario not being included doesn't cross their mind.

I have to agree with that and we also refer to Southern Ontario as simply "the South." We like to distinguish ourselves from the region that oppresses us!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

When I think of SW Ontario established housing stock properties like this come to mind. Something about that colour of brick shouts SW Ontario to me. Generally less siding in the original part of a house versus eastern Ontario for example where the brick, if there is any, is usually a red/dark brown colour and siding is more common.

https://goo.gl/maps/iaF4Cm7NKy72

I think you're right about those observations. I have to agree from my travels. BTW, I have a friend who lives in Glencoe and had a good laugh when I read the location!

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by shreddog

So "Western University" must definitely located there, right? - Oh, it's not!

Well, it must definitely be in Western Canada then, right?? - Oh, it's not! It's in Ontario!! In Southern Ontario! Well, that just doesn't make sense, does it?

PS. I know the whole history about why UWO is named as such, but I just just think the whole rebranding is a dumb idea.

Yep, the university was founded in 1878 when most of what is now Northern Ontario was Rupert's Land which was controlled by the Hudson's Bay Company and indigenous tribes. And Northern Ontario didn't develop until awhile later so today's Southwestern Ontario was knows as Western Ontario.

I always laugh today when I hear some non-Ontarian Canadians refer to Northwestern Ontario as Western Ontario. For Ontarians today, there is no Western Ontario. If the province began with its current boundaries then I think it would be called that.

[isaidso]

I regard Canada's 10 provinces as the south. The territories are the north.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by flar

I wouldn't consider it Canada's south really, it's Southwestern Ontario. When I hear south, I think of the US south and it is not that. But yes, Southwestern Ontario has its own subtle cultural flavour. It has much in common with the rustbelt/Great Lakes region, and kind of a white, blue collar, small town mindset and strong agricultural base.

London is the "capital" of SW Ontario (sorry K-W, I grew up down there and never went to K-W for anything). Windsor is the other node, and is more strongly influenced by Michigan (as are the other border towns). I consider SW Ontario to be Essex, Kent, Lambton, Elgin, Middlesex and to a bit lesser extent Huron, Perth and Oxford.

I lived in London for several years, and always found it a bit WASPy, it's an old, well-established city, with some old money and a deeply conservative/protestant ethos. This manifests itself in any possible change in anything being controversial in London and plenty of corruption and incestuous relations in politics and business.

On the flipside, London is definitely more cultured than the rest of SW Ontario. It's really the only part of SW Ontario with an established professional/white collar/artistic/educated class. The rest is very blue collar/rural conservative, and segments of the population share the type of values that got Trump elected.

I would consider southwestern Ontario to be west of - but no longer including - Waterloo (which is more tied to the GTA nowadays), and then up to Owen Sound and the Bruce Peninsula. I find London to be an interesting hybrid - there is definitely a strong blue-collar presence there, but it is also the "creative" centre of SW Ontario. Unlike Windsor, Sarnia or Chatham (or the smaller cities) which are pretty much entirely working class.

I believe SW Ontario would have been Trump's best region if he ran in Canada, along with perhaps Alberta depending on how the economic malaise is impacting political viewpoints. The trade issue as well as the overall anger message would have played very well there. Several of their MP's and MPP's I believe have even endorsed him.

[GreaterMontréal]

there is a big difference in temps and humidity between Quebec City and Montréal. often more than 5c, the dewp is also much higher in Montréal.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I would consider southwestern Ontario to be west of - but no longer including - Waterloo (which is more tied to the GTA nowadays), and then up to Owen Sound and the Bruce Peninsula. I find London to be an interesting hybrid - there is definitely a strong blue-collar presence there, but it is also the "creative" centre of SW Ontario. Unlike Windsor, Sarnia or Chatham (or the smaller cities) which are pretty much entirely working class.

I wouldn't say London is a creative centre. If anything, it's an old money kind of town.

Also, I would disagree about SW Ontario being overwhelmingly blue collar. Sarnia used to be one of the cities that had the highest percentage of people with a university degree, since many people with a chemical or mechanical engineering background worked in the petrochemical industry there. Windsor has some pockets of real wealth for a city of 300,000. There's a bit of a Grosse Pointe thing going on in Tecumseh.

[someone123]

This might not be news to anyone but the projections commonly used for Canadian maps tend to exaggerate the degree to which parts of Ontario are lower in latitude than other parts of the country.


http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/92-195-...te/m-c-eng.htm

Most Canadians travelling to Windsor would go east or west more than they'd head south.

[GreaterMontréal]

Rains are also more abundant and heat episodes more frequent. And signs that the climate is warming, the Montreal hardiness zone has changed from 5b to 6a.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/mo...ts-climatiques

[ssiguy]

I have always considered SWO as being Essex, Kent, Lambton, Elgin, Middlesex, Oxford, Perth, and Huron but not KWC and certainly not Grey or Bruce. They are far too removed and SWO undisputed centre is London and people that far "north" don't go to London for medical, government, health, shopping, or entertainment as it is too far and would be just as fast to get to Toronto. I have always called that whole region including Simcoe & Parry Sound as Georgian Bay. The climate is also very different.

Ya London has some blue collar but still has that old wealth mentality and smugness. That said it has always been a Liberal party bastion both federally and provincially. Like many old wealth places, the people are conservative in their lifestyle but progressive on social issues.

I don't think Trump would have any significant support in SWO. The difference between Michigan and SWO is clear as soon as you cross the border. There would be small pockets like there would be anywhere in the country but still very little and absolutely none in London or Windsor.