Canadian Office Space Market

[WhipperSnapper]

It's a balancing act. The restrictions you suggest may chase many jobs away.

I'd settle for a comprehensive plan for the city. The 905 is simply following in the footsteps of North York, Scarborough, and Etobicoke of the late 70s and early 80s which, despite your better transit connections, remain as poorly laid out as the 905.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's a balancing act. The restrictions you suggest may chase many jobs away.

I'd settle for a comprehensive plan for the city. The 905 is simply following in the footsteps of North York, Scarborough, and Etobicoke of the late 70s and early 80s which, despite your better transit connections, remain as poorly laid out as the 905.

It did not chase away jobs in the 50-90's. In fact our poor development is making the city and region unattractive to business.

The office development we are seeing in the 905 is not like the 416 suburbs.
For one, the only major office parks outside of the downtown core in the 416, are the Consumers Road Business Park, and a tiny cluster near the 427 in Etobicoke.

Until the 90's, 90% of metropolitan office space was built on the TTC subway network, be it in North York Centre, Scarborough Centre, Downtown, the Yonge Corridor, or Etobicoke Centre.

The buildings built away from the rapid transit network was more factory space, than office buildings.

The office building thing really only gained steam in the 905 in the 90's.

And the development is very bad compared to even the ones within suburban Toronto.
In suburban Toronto, the office parks, even the factory ones, are one better street layouts, which don't take forever to walk down from bus stops, etc.

Try navigating the Meadowvale Business Park on foot.

[WhipperSnapper]

I'm not sure what you mean by " it didn't chase away jobs from the 50s to 90s". It also shouldn't be a surprise that 40 years of suburban office parks development has led to larger parks further from the core and take up a larger percentage of total inventory however, that doesn't make the 427 corridor, Consumers Road , Duncan Mills, Markham Rd, etc. any easier to transverse and no where near rapid transit.

I don't see any point limiting them around GO Stations since the GO Network is all about funneling people downtown. Service is extremely limited or even non-existent for people commuting through, for example, York Region. Most people drive to the stations as well so you'll still have seas of surface parking as multi-level garages is simply not in the budget.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Chinook Arch

Another office tower looks to be going ahead in Calgary.




City Center

Very nicely done . . . just needs to be TALLER!

[TallBob]

Craner: Ya! There's more and more forumers at least the Calgary lurkers, that would like to see some taller stuff on the more "significant" developements. However, City Center like you said is pretty darn good!! Let the digging begin!

[craner]

Amen brother.

[LeftCoaster]

The buildings will not be growing, they are that height, and given their location in the skyline I think the height is very appropriate.

It should be noted that CCC does not have any confirmed tenants, however word is CF is in discussion with multiple interested parties.

There is little doubt this one will be in full swing very soon.

[TallBob]

LeftCoaster: I can only speak for myself, I'm well aware that CC isn't going to grow!! LOL. If it was meant as a joke. What I was implying, and I beleive I'm correct in saying that, more and more forumers, primarily Calgary posters (lurkers), would like to see a little taller proposals. Not saying that will even happen. I'm well aware of Shadowing By-Laws (like 'em or not), and other restrictions. I also think that developers/builders in Calgary are a little on the conservative side, (with the Exception of the Bow of course). We're still entitled to voice our own opinion, I hope.

[Andrewjm3D]

Originally Posted by TallBob

I also think that developers/builders in Calgary are a little on the conservative side, (with the Exception of the Bow of course). We're still entitled to voice our own opinion, I hope.

Sigh, I think all Canadian cities suffer from being to conservative when it comes to architecture. We are changing though.

[TallBob]

I probably over-stated the word "conservative". But hopefully it will get better. Calgary's got some great buildings other than the Bow. But like most cities in reallity, there's whole bunch of "dogs" also.

[WhipperSnapper]

Actually, architecture in Calgary could be a little more reserved. Personally, I'd rather a quality, minimalistic box represented by Southcore in Toronto over a dressed up box such as Jamieson or Centennial.

EAP design is there but the quality of the finishes isn't. It's doesn't tread water with the majority of the design firm's other works and the comparisons to Devon Tower in OKC only serves to cheapen EAP further.

[Doug]

What isn't top notch amount EAP materials?

[Wooster]

I think WhipperSnapper has previously commented on EAP's perforated Mullion Caps. Devon's are more of a glass fin?

Personally, I don't have a problem with them. It's not really a prominent feature of the facade and very difficult to actually notice.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think WhipperSnapper has previously commented on EAP's perforated Mullion Caps. Devon's are more of a glass fin?

Personally, I don't have a problem with them. It's not really a prominent feature of the facade and very difficult to actually notice.

There's little difference from Devon's OKC tower and EAP, definitely nothing obvious. A better argument for Whippersnapper would have been to use 300 N LaSalle in Chicago as a comparison.

[LeftCoaster]

Just a little update too, official numbers have not come out yet but AA vacancy in Calgary has now hit 1.5% which is more or less 0 for any large block users.

For all intents there are no contiguous blocks of space >50,000sf available.

Expect to see A LOT of movement on the office development front.

[Deepstar]

It seems like only yesterday that they were predicting 20% vacancy rate for Calgary!

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Just a little update too, official numbers have not come out yet but AA vacancy in Calgary has now hit 1.5% which is more or less 0 for any large block users.

For all intents there are no contiguous blocks of space >50,000sf available.

Expect to see A LOT of movement on the office development front.

[suburbanite]

While it would be great to see some more nice towers like EAP, I hope this demand translates into at least one >250m building.

[LeftCoaster]

^Not likely. There is nothing in the pipeline with that kind of height.

Still should result in a couple significant buildings.

[TallBob]

Makes you wonder if a couple of these office proposals in Calgary would get additional floors/floor area even though the DP's have been filed? Anyone want to comment....

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^Not likely. There is nothing in the pipeline with that kind of height.

Still should result in a couple significant buildings.

The question in my mind is how long this might last. Will we see 4-6 new "talls" and a smattering of shorter towers (like the last cycle), and then everything wraps up? Only to repeat again once we're back down to 1% vacancy rates?

Or will it be sustained this time? I remember around 2006-7 I had made several tongue in cheek posts on SSP to the effect of "nothing short of a complete global economic meltdown is going to hurt commodity prices enough to stall this boom"... and of course here we are today.