In The Ghetto: Canadian Style

[ue]

Sorry, haven't read the entire thread. If nobody has represented Edmonton, then the roughest parts of town are Boyle Street (includes the revitalization area, "The Quarters") and McCauley. These areas include the largest portion of social services and poor individuals.

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

Wow, really? Most people I know, and including myself, have been the victims of crime, whether minor or violent. Myself and a few friends were jumped by a guy on Water street one evening for no apparent reason, then the asshole pulled a screwdriver on us before a few passer-by's intervened and subdued him.

Hell, even today I was walking down Prince Phillip and stumbled across a guy who was looking for help because he was jumped. Face was completely busted.

St. John's has a surprisingly high number of unprovoked violent crimes. The police never speak about it though, or rarely follow through with media reports after they're done. A guy was stabbed downtown yesterday, appears to have been random, but the media coverage has been pretty much nil. The guy is clinging to life, yet the police don't seem to be putting in a huge effort in to hunting down a potential murderer.

What the fuck? Maybe I'm being naive (never heard of such a thing out West or in other areas I've been - not Newfoundland, never been), but that's just horrible.

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I've never found Winnipeg's beggars to be that bad at all compared to Calg/Edm/Van. There may be a higher concentration of them in certain areas of downtown, but most are polite in my experience.

The worst place for aggressive bums in my experience (in Canada) is Toronto. So many of them are assholes! and many are young kids in their 20s. It must be a consequence of a bigger city, but many the panhandlers there feel that they are entitled to your spare change rather than being genuinely grateful if you decide to help them out. This happened to me last month:

Homeless guy holds door for me as I'm leaving Union Station
Me: Thanks
Hobo: Can you spare a dollar? (not just any change, this guy wants an entire dollar!)
Me: No I can't, sorry man.
Hobo: Well fuck you then.
Me: *Incredulous look on my face* You think that you holding a door is worth a dollar? Most people do that for free. And insulting people who may potentially donate to your drug/booze fund isn't the greatest strategy.

It was insane!

Huh, interesting. Near identical occurrences have happened to me in Edmonton. I've been told to go fuck myself, that I'm a fucking bastard, and other things for not sparing change. The good news is that, maybe it's just me, but things have gotten much better in the past even 18 months wrt panhandling in Edmonton. I find it much rarer to even be asked for any change, and if so, the person asking is kind and not intimidating whatsoever. In fact, I found Ottawa to be worse than Edmonton (though, like Edmonton recently, the people asking were nice). You'd think the more vibrant streets would drown out the panhandling compared to Edmonton.

Winnipeg and Edmonton I find about the same with amount of panhandling and aggressiveness. That is, both cities get a far worse rap than is reality. Both cities are plenty safe.

Toronto on the other hand, I only recall being asked for change once, but I could've been asked a few other times. I was actually surprised at the lack of panhandling for such a large city. Maybe the large crowds of workers, shoppers, tourists, and other folks drowned them out? Just goes to show how anecdotal these things really are.

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The times that annoyed/scared me the most were when they insisted on more.

"Hey man, got any change?"
"Sure, here."
"Got any more?"

"Hey man, can I bum a smoke?"
"Here..."
"Can I have two?"

And when they followed me...

"Spare some money?"
"Sorry, I only have my card."
"Well we could go to an ATM or you could take me into Subway or something!"
"No, sorry, I'm going to work."

Etc.

wait, you actually gave them money? You actually gave them a cigarette? You were actually apologetic about not having cash and only having your debit card?

Here's what you do when a Winnipeg bum asks for money.

You say "NO. GTFO"

It works for me.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I've explored, I think, most of downtown. I've been in Wolseley (sorry, I forget how to spell it), the West End. I had a friend in Place Promenade so I spent a lot of time in that area, and even walked on the street from there to the liquor store on Ellice by that chain store... Tiger. Most of those areas were O.K. I definitely encountered aggressive panhandlers there, but I can count on one hand the number of times it happened - it wasn't a reliable, everyday occurance as it was elsewhere.

I've been around the Health Sciences Centre, which was probably the most aggressive and consistently uncomfortable/scary of all, far worse than downtown.

I've been to Portage Place. The entrances were bad, but once inside it was fine.

I've been up Main Street as far north as Dufferin, and then in to Neechi Foods (I forget the full name of the place, but it definitely had Neechi in it).

I've biked the river trail that cuts across south Main from Fort Rouge to The Forks. When you could actually go under the bridge, it was fine, but if you had to take that trail up to the crosswalk and cross the road, there were always drunk bums sitting on the ledge near there.

I've seen drunks and encountered aggressive panhandlers in all these areas.

The only place downtown that I ever felt completely safe was anywhere on Broadway and anywhere in the Exchange. There the ratio of normal pedestrians to bums was enough in our favour that you could just live and not have to think about it.

And I've travelled a lot. The only places I've been that are at all comparable (and, honestly, were much worse than Winnipeg) are some of the cities in Central Europe.

But even in other prairie cities like Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, etc. None had the sheer number or aggressiveness of bums. And it's not just me... the company I work for even had security guard escorts for anyone who worked later than 6 p.m., to get them safely from the building to the parkade. Now even I think that was overkill, but it still happened - and only in that city.

nichee is a workers co-op and is doing some really good work
plus they are expanding and i live 4 blocks from their new home... on main and euclid
as for pan handlers the problems not like it once was....... least were not thompson.......

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

nichee is a workers co-op and is doing some really good work
plus they are expanding and i live 4 blocks from their new home... on main and euclid
as for pan handlers the problems not like it once was....... least were not thompson.......

I have never been to Thompson, but both Thompson and Flin Flon have horrible reputations as to how they treat out of towners. Especially people from the city.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

In Winnipeg, they walk up to you when you're walking on the sidewalk, come to your window when you're stopped in your car. They don't busker at all, they speak to you - ask for money, cigarettes, whatever. It's intimidating and VERY aggressive. And that doesn't even count the ones that become a little confrontational.

That is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

Most of the panhandlers in Winnipeg do little more than sit quietly holding a hat or cup out. Additionally Winnipeg BIZ patrols, cops and cadets seem to know the panhandlers by name and the panhandlers quickly scatter once they see them coming.

I have noticed a MAJOR change in this regard over the past 10 years.

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

I've never found Winnipeg's beggars to be that bad at all compared to Calg/Edm/Van. There may be a higher concentration of them in certain areas of downtown, but most are polite in my experience.

The worst place for aggressive bums in my experience (in Canada) is Toronto. So many of them are assholes! and many are young kids in their 20s. It must be a consequence of a bigger city, but many the panhandlers there feel that they are entitled to your spare change rather than being genuinely grateful if you decide to help them out. This happened to me last month:

Homeless guy holds door for me as I'm leaving Union Station
Me: Thanks
Hobo: Can you spare a dollar? (not just any change, this guy wants an entire dollar!)
Me: No I can't, sorry man.
Hobo: Well fuck you then.
Me: *Incredulous look on my face* You think that you holding a door is worth a dollar? Most people do that for free. And insulting people who may potentially donate to your drug/booze fund isn't the greatest strategy.

It was insane!

I once parked on Front Street near the Gooderham Building, and an aggressive panhandler asked for some money and in return he'd "make sure nothing happened to my car"... I was probably asked for money like 3 more times within a block of there afterward. The car ended up being OK fortunatley.

In Montreal, panhandlers love the hanging out inside metro stations during the winter. The deranged one-armed one at Guy-Concordia once yelled "Tim Raines" and threw his hat at me. I saw the same guy drunk out of his mind in a metro train once, he was kicking on the doors and trying to intimidate women on the train...

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by ue

What the fuck? Maybe I'm being naive (never heard of such a thing out West or in other areas I've been - not Newfoundland, never been), but that's just horrible.

This is the most detailed article I could find on the situation. But I watch the evening news everyday, and not a word was mentioned. And nothing new posted today. The police are probably going to let this one slip away.

26-year-old fighting for life following downtown stabbing

At about 3:45 a.m. on Sunday, a man with a stab wound made his way to police on Duckworth Street, asking for help.

According to a statement issued this afternoon by the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary (RNC), police were on patrol in the area when the 26-year-old man approached, saying he had just been stabbed.

The RNC noted his injuries were, “consistent with a stabbing and believed to be life threatening.”

The man was rushed to hospital from the scene.

Meanwhile, a police K9 team and forensic team were called to the area, along with specialists in major crimes.

Anyone with information that might help in the investigation is asked to contact the RNC at 729-8000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...own-stabbing/1

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

wait, you actually gave them money? You actually gave them a cigarette? You were actually apologetic about not having cash and only having your debit card?

Here's what you do when a Winnipeg bum asks for money.

You say "NO. GTFO"

It works for me.

Most of the time people ask for money from me in London, I just tell them I don't have any cash. Which is partially true; I use a credit card for everything and rarely carry more than $10 in cash. Regardless, I would much prefer that they seek help from a registered charity. At least that way I can be assured my donation won't be spend on prostitutes, crack or alcohol. Still, they're almost always polite about it; the odd time I feel slightly Hobbesian and give money, they're very grateful for what they receive.

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

In Winnipeg, they walk up to you when you're walking on the sidewalk, come to your window when you're stopped in your car. They don't busker at all, they speak to you - ask for money, cigarettes, whatever. It's intimidating and VERY aggressive. And that doesn't even count the ones that become a little confrontational.

I had some people do similar things to me in Toronto. A couple of folks have come up to my car offering a squeegee- they rarely listen to the "no-wave", then proceed to do a shitty job and demand money. I've developed two strategies to counter this:

1) Turn on the windshield wipers to ultra-fast mode, instantly make it difficult to touch the windscreen.
2) Lay on the horn, and don't let off. Not only is this incredibly annoying, but it also attracts attention should anything go wrong.

Both are quite effective, but I thought this sort of behaviour was illegal in Ontario?

[chrisallard5454]

I love helping people, so sometimes when they ask for money I say I don't have any. But I follow up with offering a bite to eat at Timmies. It is then that I find out what is on the minds of the panhandler.

If they accept, then I, at least, am assured it is going to a meal, or a drink that won't result in violence/drunkenness.

If they decline (which they most often do) then I am just assured that they wanted to go buy booze or drugs.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by h0twired

That is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

Most of the panhandlers in Winnipeg do little more than sit quietly holding a hat or cup out. Additionally Winnipeg BIZ patrols, cops and cadets seem to know the panhandlers by name and the panhandlers quickly scatter once they see them coming.

I have noticed a MAJOR change in this regard over the past 10 years.

Yeah, I've noticed a change even in the past 5 years...

[vid]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

wait, you actually gave them money? You actually gave them a cigarette? You were actually apologetic about not having cash and only having your debit card?

Here's what you do when a Winnipeg bum asks for money.

You say "NO. GTFO"

It works for me.

OK, well like me you're probably a 200+ pound muscular white male who could easily defend himself in a fight with someone who literally has nothing to lose.

Most people aren't big, strong men who have traditionally been in a controlling role in society and that tactic you suggest is often met by violence. Simple honesty and treating people like human beings, combined with my size, is probably the main reason that despite living in one of the poorest, most crime ridden neighbourhoods in Ontario, I have never been a victim of crime.

They're destitute. Insulting them or being rude to them just makes their already shitty life worse. Grow up.

Originally Posted by Wharn

Regardless, I would much prefer that they seek help from a registered charity.

Yes, and registered charities would prefer that they could afford to assist all those who ask for their help.

[Darkoshvilli]

You encounter many squeegees and red light beggars (those that walk along cars stopped at a light asking for change) in Montreal if you drive in the city a lot. From what I've seen they rarely ever get aggressive if you don't give them anything.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

In Montreal, panhandlers love the hanging out inside metro stations during the winter. The deranged one-armed one at Guy-Concordia once yelled "Tim Raines" and threw his hat at me. I saw the same guy drunk out of his mind in a metro train once, he was kicking on the doors and trying to intimidate women on the train...

That guy arrives at Guy ever morning, takes his shirt off (yes he has one), dirties himself up a bit (I've seen it) and chooses the dirtiest, most public he can find to lay at.

I've also seen him hassle the musicians while they were playing.
This man gets 0 sympathy from me, he also got approximately 00.00$ out of me in the last 10 years or so.

[urbandreamer]

I really need to spend more time in the 'peg. Fascinating photos ChrisAllard. The neighbourhood has this small town western feel to it that fascinates me. I personally like the decay--gentrified areas are generally rather boring I find.

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by vid

OK, well like me you're probably a 200+ pound muscular white male who could easily defend himself in a fight with someone who literally has nothing to lose.

More or less. Does that mean everyone else gives in to fear? Fear is the mindkiller.

They're destitute. Insulting them or being rude to them just makes their already shitty life worse. Grow up.

Where did I insult anybody? I replied the way I would expect someone to reply to me if I asked them for money for nothing.

You really go off on a strange and frankly irrelevant tangent here about white male privilege. I'm going to ignore it.

We all know there are any number of programs out there that are available. Certainly there could be more, especially for those with mental issues who can't function properly. But most of the time, panhandlers are addicts. Usually to alcohol, but sometimes other substances. I'm not particularly interested in providing them with their drug of choice, and I can't be made to feel bad about it.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

This is only 1/3 of this tour, which is the first of many to come. I plan to do all of the North End one day, which will highlight a lot of the good things that the community has to offer as well. I will get the rest of this tour and then start on the second and other subsequent tours later on. Hope you liked it.

wish i had a god dam time machean go back ten yrs with some money and buy up a couple blocks. i remember back then telling people to buy realistate when it was dirt cheap and being shot down now i laugh and pull my hair out you could buy stuff from 1000 bucks to 25k...

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by vid

Yes, and registered charities would prefer that they could afford to assist all those who ask for their help.

Maybe if the government didn't tax people to hell and gave more generous credits (I'm sorry, but 15% on amounts less than $200 is pathetic), people would be encouraged to donate more and they might not have as much of a shortfall.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Maybe if the government didn't tax people to hell and gave more generous credits (I'm sorry, but 15% on amounts less than $200 is pathetic), people would be encouraged to donate more and they might not have as much of a shortfall.

If the government didn't tax people to hell, how would it be able to afford more than a 15% credit on charitable donations?

[DaRealOg]

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.67357...7i13312!8i6656 this is the ghetto of of canada though there are other parts this is one of the mains

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DaRealOg

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.67357...7i13312!8i6656 this is the ghetto of of canada though there are other parts this is one of the mains

Ghetto?! In Winnipeg, that would be a charming urban neighbourhood.