suburbs of Florence italy

lorenz · #1 Posted **Mar 16, 2018, 2:25 PM**

McBane · #2 Posted **Mar 16, 2018, 2:36 PM**

Cool to see the "real" Italy. So different than the Italy we are typically exposed to (tiny hillside villages, the historic quarters of Florence, Venice, etc.). I'd imagine the majority of Italians live in non-descript suburbs such as these. But I'm just guessing.

mousquet · #3 Posted **Mar 16, 2018, 3:47 PM**

^ Your guessing is certainly wrong, however. You wouldn't seriously think Italy's a backward third-world country, right?

I know a bit of it. I've been over there quite a few times, drove it from the north to the south and highly doubt a majority of them would live this type of later urban planning.
I have no statistics here right now, but think the more common thing over the country as a whole is old quaint rural villages combined to a bunch of larger historic towns and cities.
Mind you that it's no historically centralized country like France or England would be. Power is vastly distributed all over the peninsula. It is traditionally decentralized and even needed the French to find its unity.

These are post-war suburbs. Ghettoish and often unsafe in my country, as we've received millions of poor uneducated migrants since the 1960s to make a cheap workforce of them.
I don't know what they feel like over there, but you find some of those all over Europe. It's not any particular local thing. In fact, you may find worse, grittier in England for instance. Some ashamed would rather hide their grit and poverty, while this guy is just playing this overly honest or legit.

Anyway, there's famously a huge (pretty impressive) economic gap between the upper 2/3 of the country, which tends to be wealthy and export tons of products, some fairly high tech, and the southern third that's much more struggling. That's where unemployment and poverty are. And that's what keeps the overall economy of the country slightly set back, although it's not actually too far from France's. Some northern regions are as healthy as Switzerland or the wealthiest places of France.

In a nutshell, I would describe Italy as one of these typically Euro/Mediterranean/Latin (i.e. born to the Roman empire and Catholicism) countries, much the same as France, Spain and most likely Portugal, with their own many many (countless) local specialties, obviously.

McBane · #4 Posted **Mar 16, 2018, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet

^ Your guessing is certainly wrong, however. You wouldn't seriously think Italy's a backward third-world country, right.

Thanks for the explanation but I don't see what one has to do with the other. How is living in the types of suburbs shown in this thread is indicative of a backward third world country? They don't look ghetto and the OP didn't provide any context. Sheesh.

MonkeyRonin · #5 Posted **Mar 16, 2018, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

Cool to see the "real" Italy. So different than the Italy we are typically exposed to (tiny hillside villages, the historic quarters of Florence, Venice, etc.). I'd imagine the majority of Italians live in non-descript suburbs such as these. But I'm just guessing.

I guess. I wouldn't really be surprised if utilitarian suburbs were home to a plurality or majority of Italians, as they are in most countries.

Still, I'd wager that the proportion of people living in those quaint hillside villages and historic city centres is much higher in Italy than it would be in perhaps any other country. Like, even just in Florence here you can see how large the urban core is relative to the sprawl:

mrnyc · #6 Posted **Mar 17, 2018, 10:08 PM**

great thread — something we dont see much of.

btw 67% of people in italy live in and around big cities vs for example usa at 80%.

i think rural has greatly declined there, but small town is common.

mousquet · #7 Posted **Mar 17, 2018, 10:45 PM**

I'm not even so sure that complete rural exodus to cities would be anything positive. I'm extremely skeptical about that.
When I hear today's farmers speaking, I'm astonished. They are smart, can speak a very comprehensive language, lots of them being actually educated nowadays, and more and more are seeking innovative things like organic farming and stuff we're not even aware of.
They naughty guys out there have got their little secrets...

Believe it or not, we're even seeing graduate yuppies giving up on their urban lives to go back to farming here, cause they've been so fascinated. It's going to the point that being called a 'peasant' is tuning into a compliment, a claim and a pride here, while it's still an insult in the dumbass US.

Our only problem is infrastructures. It's been hard to bring trains and fiber-optic telecommunication up to low-density areas, to keep them connected as everyone should be.

But we're working on it on behalf of equality before public services.

mrnyc · #8 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 5:36 AM**

the term peasant is a european concoction, its not used in the americas.

big agra in the states is certainly impersonal, but the usa purchasing power per capita far outstrips european countries, so america must be doing something right.

and while it may be a romantic notion to take your wealth and retire to become a farmer, and people do that in the usa as well, ca ne fait aucune difference, only a dumbass would think that it would.

mousquet · #9 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 5:51 AM**

^ Why being so touchy? It only shows your weakness.

My 1st post was because I did see dumbass Americans saying - wait, this is backwards at some European map (I'm pretty sure the map was actually a focus on Italy), then please, allow me to make fun of you.

I don't give a fuck about any difference between Canada or the US. LOL. I mean, I'm from France, on the other side of a wide ocean... Who gives a damn any slight difference here?

mrnyc · #10 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 5:59 AM**

just cleaning up a few of your nitwitted misrepresentations around here fiston.

mousquet · #11 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 6:26 AM**

^ Hm, it's okay... Nothing spiteful here.
And I'd like Italy to shine, huh.

mrnyc · #12 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 7:05 AM**

now thats funny a french kid so quick to bring up spite, something your culture has certainement made quite an art of, d’accord?

now yes, back to italy, suburbs and all.

marcus · #13 Posted **Mar 18, 2018, 5:59 PM**

This is fascinating. It's seems common belief that North America is the only place with sprawling suburbs, but this is far, far from the case. I believe Europe in general has less leapfrog development than in North and South America.

The commercial areas in the beginning resemble American suburbs. But there seems to be more pedestrian-oriented design elsewhere, and the housing is multi-family. I wonder how transit is.

mousquet · #14 Posted **Mar 19, 2018, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc

now thats funny a french kid so quick to bring up spite, something your culture has certainement made quite an art of, d’accord?

It's not just spite, it's systematic criticism.

I know it's harsh, or at least quite annoying, but it came from the very great minds of legendary mathematicians and philosophers like Galileo Galilei (gigantic Italian hero), then Spinoza, René Descartes and so forth.

It's important, essential to keep this common spirit of theirs alive today.
I guess the French and others are only trying to be true to it, and it's fine.

Edit: Newton is so giant that I always forget the era he was born to. 16th, 17th or 18th century? I mean, the guy is such an universal legend that he crosses centuries in my memory.
But you got to mention him among the earliest heroes and most original, too.

MonkeyRonin · #15 Posted **Mar 19, 2018, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

This is fascinating. It's seems common belief that North America is the only place with sprawling suburbs, but this is far, far from the case. I believe Europe in general has less leapfrog development than in North and South America.

The commercial areas in the beginning resemble American suburbs. But there seems to be more pedestrian-oriented design elsewhere, and the housing is multi-family. I wonder how transit is.

Sure, low-density sprawl is not unique to North America, but the pervasiveness of it and "sprawliness" of it sure is (aside from a few other places like Australia and South Africa).

As can be seen in the aerial I posted earlier, most of the built-up area is still very urban in form. But zooming in on some of the suburban residential areas, you'll still see they look more like this:

Mostly multi-family, fairly dense, retail main streets, and decent train or bus service. Not really something that would typically be thought of as suburban in North America.

The closest resemblance you'll find to that would be in these sorts of sprawling industrial estates scattered around, which have some big box retail mixed in with the warehouses:

Coldrsx · #16 Posted **Mar 20, 2018, 1:22 AM**

My of my have ever regressed.

lorenz · #17 Posted **Mar 20, 2018, 10:50 AM**

Hello everyone! I do not want to enter into controversy or various discussions, I announce that in the coming days I will insert more photos of the suburbs of florence, stay tuned!

McBane · #18 Posted **Mar 20, 2018, 6:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet

^ My 1st post was because I did see dumbass Americans saying - wait, this is backwards at some European map (I'm pretty sure the map was actually a focus on Italy), then please, allow me to make fun of you.

What the hell are you talking about?! My first post - I simply said it was interesting to see the way I would guess most Italians live (ordinary suburbs vs the postcard perfect villages and town centers that people tend to associate Italy with). And from that you interpreted my post to mean that Italians are backwards? And now I'm a "dumbass American" and you're talking about a map? What map?