The rise of right wing nativism and Canada as an outlier

[hipster duck]

In this article in the Globe, Konrad Yakabuski notes that Canada is among the few countries in the Western democratic world where there isn't a rise in a nativist, right wing demagogic movement. However, he doesn't have any theories as to why Canada is able to escape this.

I think many of us can immediately think of some obvious reasons why: we're a country of immigrants; we have a points-based immigration system rather than an asylum system; we don't share a land border with a developing country, etc.

I have a weird, unverifiable theory that Canada isn't enlightened, it's just 10 years late to every party. This applies to everything from ramming freeways through our inner cities (luckily we were able to look south and learn from this) to electing neoconservative hawks ten years after 9/11.

Still, are there other reasons that might have escaped our attention? Can Canada be free of this for long?

If there's anywhere I can think where interesting ideas might bubble up about this topic, I figured it would be here. Discuss away!

[SignalHillHiker]

I think we have plenty of Old Stock Canadians interested in the Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline.

Beyond that, I think there's two things going on... the United States is an adjacent example for us so we get to see what works and what doesn't before it progresses too far in our own society.

And, again, as with all things Canadian, it's a federation with no national consensus. Immigration is primarily an issue in our largest cities, which are also presumably the most open it. They also get their immigrants from different places to the most part. Someone whipping up anti-Chinese sentiment isn't going to have much success outside of Vancouver. Someone fired up about Haitians wouldn't even have anyone to yell at outside of Toronto and Montreal. And for vast swaths of the country, including mine, immigration is a non-issue as the numbers are so low. Regionalism eats up Canada's nativist sentiment. It's expended for the most part on other regions of the country, not immigrants.

[mistercorporate]

Nativism occurs more frequently when there is a large economic, and in some cases, social disparity between ethnic groups. In Toronto you see it in the difference at the levels of nativism between Brampton/Mississauga and Markham/Scarborough. More nativism (very mild mind you) in Markham/Brampton with less nativism and more intermixing and harmony in Mississauga/Scarborough. All 4 regions are immigrant gateways yet some are more harmonious due to more similar socio-economic statuses among ethnic groups. The points based system helped a lot but we may begin to go backwards in terms of integration and harmony due to more looser immigration policies under the new Liberal government.

[Acajack]

It could very well be that Canada, as is sometimes the case, is simply "late to the party" on this one.

Or we may if we are lucky (largely) escape the madness. If indeed things do worsen, I doubt we'll escape it completely.

[mistercorporate]

I would argue its most of the rest of the western world who are late to the points based immigration party. Australia, Canada and to a lesser extent NZ are way ahead of the others in the maturity of their systems.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I would argue its most of the rest of the western world who are late to the points based immigration party. Australia, Canada and to a lesser extent NZ are way ahead of the others in the maturity of their systems.

That's why I put "late to the party" in quotation marks.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I would argue its most of the rest of the western world who are late to the points based immigration party. Australia, Canada and to a lesser extent NZ are way ahead of the others in the maturity of their systems.

It's not extreme but Australia does generally have more nativist tendencies than Canada does (except for Quebec).

Not sure about NZ.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And, again, as with all things Canadian, it's a federation with no national consensus. Immigration is primarily an issue in our largest cities, which are also presumably the most open it. They also get their immigrants from different places to the most part. Someone whipping up anti-Chinese sentiment isn't going to have much success outside of Vancouver. Someone fired up about Haitians wouldn't even have anyone to yell at outside of Toronto and Montreal. And for vast swaths of the country, including mine, immigration is a non-issue as the numbers are so low. Regionalism eats up Canada's nativist sentiment. It's expended for the most part on other regions of the country, not immigrants.

That's very true. But, at the same time, Canada's very lopsided population distribution - where the greater GTA accounts for 1/3 of the country's population; 1/3 of all of English Canada - and parliamentary system means that you only have to find a GTA boogeyman, marry it to another regional cause from somewhere else, and you can run with it.

If there was a surge of nativism in the GTA, as mistercorporate explains, then some opportunistic politician could scoop up enough GTA votes to form government.

Luckily Toronto doesn't have a nativism problem yet, even though new immigrants are increasingly finding themselves at the bottom rungs of the socio-economic ladder there and there's a danger that some immigrant groups might form into a large and permanent underclass.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And, again, as with all things Canadian, it's a federation with no national consensus. Immigration is primarily an issue in our largest cities, which are also presumably the most open it. They also get their immigrants from different places to the most part. Someone whipping up anti-Chinese sentiment isn't going to have much success outside of Vancouver.

Vancouver, to take one example, is an exceptionally new city where the typical resident has shallow roots. Few people can trace back more than a couple of generations within the city and a huge percentage of people are descendants of relatives they know who weren't born in Canada. 100 years ago, BC only had 1/10 of the population it does today.

This is completely different from Quebec outside of Montreal or all of Atlantic Canada. In those places if you are a history buff you might have an abstract sense of when some relatives came over in the 1600's or 1700's, or you might not really be aware of any personal ties to other countries or regions. You're unlikely to have a "backup" place to move to where you have personal ties.

I am not sure how strong a force this is but I've been in Vancouver for a few years and I still have a wait-and-see attitude about the city. I really doubt I would feel the same way if I'd been born here, lived here my whole life, and had ties going far back with nothing in particular to draw me anywhere else. It would be even less likely if I were to have poor personal economic prospects that I believed were deteriorating as a result of immigration.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I think a reform of the voting system may open up some room for more populist/nativist elements of the conservative movement in this country.

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah, that's true.

At least TO's patriotism is largely based on multiculturalism. They're raised with that being part of the foundation of their civic identity.

[Xelebes]

I have a personal fear that the proposed electoral system change by Trudeau's liberals will have a very serious backlash, especially if it is interpreted as taking power away from constituents. We will be late as we all know it. It's called Canada Standard Time. We embrace it; we dread it.

[SignalHillHiker]

They also have enough from various groups that troubles from the old country seem more pronounced than in Canada - for example, football roots between Balkan ethnic groups. May have happened in Canada, I don't know, but definitely does in Australia.

[mistercorporate]

Australia is still overwhelmingly of British Isles origin, Canada has no majority.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Australia is still overwhelmingly of British Isles origin, Canada has no majority.

Not overall, but most regions do. Outside of a handful of large cities and francophone Quebec, Canada definitely feels dominated by people of British Isles origin. They're a majority in most provinces, and one of the largest ethnic groups in all.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Not overall, but most regions do. Outside of a handful of large cities and francophone Quebec, Canada definitely feels dominated by people of British Isles origin. They're a majority in most provinces, and one of the largest ethnic groups in all.

I agree that British Isles origin people are the largest minority group here and have the biggest geographic spread, but being 37% of the population makes them more politically and socially compromising than a country thats 70% or so British Isles origin like Australia.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Australia is still overwhelmingly of British Isles origin, Canada has no majority.

The 80% of Canadians of European ancestry (i.e. white) might be surprised to learn this. We're not likely to target the Irish (again), the future risk, if it exists relates to visible minority communities be they ethnic or religious.

[Acajack]

I think the British Isles population is often greatly underplayed in Canada outside Quebec. What with the Canadian ethnic origin mixing things up for several census periods now, it's impossible to tell just how many people are English-Irish-Scottish in origin.

My sense is that the British group might still be a bare majority even in BC and Ontario. Though not in Saskatchewan interestingly enough. SK is the only anglo majority province where British origin people are not the largest ethnic origin group. It's been that way for quite some time. I think Germans are the largest group there.

It will also be disputed by some on here but I would suspect that British origin people are still pluralities in the Greater Vancouver and Greater Toronto areas. Probably in the 40% range. Again, with Canadian ethnic origin etc. it's really hard to know. But there is no shortage of white anglos is either of those cities, in spite of what people say. It's not like Miami or Detroit.

None of this is going to last forever I agree. Either for BC and Ontario or for Toronto or Vancouver.

Regardless, this group does not appear to have hardly any nativist tendencies at the moment in Canada.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The 80% of Canadians of European ancestry (i.e. white) might be surprised to learn this. We're not likely to target the Irish (again), the future risk, if it exists relates to visible minority communities be they ethnic or religious.

I think you are overstating the levels of white nationalism or solidarity. The interests of French canadians, English Canadians, Ukrainians and Italian Canadians are far less racial than you state. Attempts to create a white nationalist platform is bound to alienate a majority of Italian, Irish and French Canadians if not a majority of Anglo Canadians themselves. The white nationalist movement in this country is miniscule and declining. Most of the biggest proponents of a multiethnic society in this country are "white" themselves.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I think you are overstating the levels of white nationalism or solidarity. The interests of French canadians, English Canadians, Ukrainians and Italian Canadians are far less racial than you state. Attempts to create a white nationalist platform is bound to alienate a majority of Italian, Irish and French Canadians if not a majority of Anglo Canadians themselves. The white nationalist movement in this country is miniscule and declining. Most of the biggest proponents of a multiethnic society in this country are "white" themselves.

I think you're partly right in the sense that the risk is low (though one never knows).

But there is an ''us'' of white people in Canada that is comprised of people with names like Smith, Wilson, Mackenzie, Yaremchuk, Van Dyke, Schneider, Gagnon, Nilsson, Antonelli, etc. They're not radicalized or even mobilized in that collective identity, but it still exists. They're also open to people with different colour skin or facial features with names like Srivastava, Wong or Nkrumah who want to join their ''us".

There is also a parallel us with people who have names like Tremblay, Pelletier, Dupont, Lapointe, Mercier, Ross, Harvey, Smith, Flynn, Calliari, Lopez, Pacheco, etc. They are somewhat more mobilized as an "us" than the group above but they are also open to people with different colour skin or facial features with names like Ndiaye, Haddad or Nguyen who want to join their "us".

These groups are not significantly different from the ''non-hispanic white anglo" group in the US.