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  #1201  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 9:48 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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Originally Posted by xofr View Post
I was reading somewhere that there is no plan to move the substation as it will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $90 million. It also services 3/4 of the city.
I'm fine with the substation being where it is, but we could still bury the lines and build a more interesting wall.
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  #1202  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 10:03 PM
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I'm fine with the substation being where it is, but we could still bury the lines and build a more interesting wall.
Which I would be fine with as well if they plan to bury them. As far as not moving the substation, that is new information to me because there was at least talk of it being downsized and downsized over several years until it could be removed completely. It may be off the table now but something tells me that someday down the road it will be shut down. It just makes sense that eventually it will be moved. Just look at the types of projects going up around it...(Independent) there's going to be pressure to get rid of it.
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  #1203  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 11:49 PM
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If the right developer with deep pockets came around, I'm sure it would suddenly become more possible. I don't see the city doing it on their own, that's for sure.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
Which I would be fine with as well if they plan to bury them. As far as not moving the substation, that is new information to me because there was at least talk of it being downsized and downsized over several years until it could be removed completely. It may be off the table now but something tells me that someday down the road it will be shut down. It just makes sense that eventually it will be moved. Just look at the types of projects going up around it...(Independent) there's going to be pressure to get rid of it.
As long as people in the area need electricity, it's staying.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 3:49 PM
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As long as people in the area need electricity, it's staying.
New substations can be built. By your logic the Seaholm Power Plant should still be operational but it's not because new plants were built.

I'm not saying we are seeing it go anytime soon. If the city is currently not planning to move it then it's here to stay for awhile. That doesn't mean that 10-15-20 years down the road it won't be moved or a new underground substation will be built in the area.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
New substations can be built. By your logic the Seaholm Power Plant should still be operational but it's not because new plants were built.

I'm not saying we are seeing it go anytime soon. If the city is currently not planning to move it then it's here to stay for awhile. That doesn't mean that 10-15-20 years down the road it won't be moved or a new underground substation will be built in the area.
Uh, no, that's not logic. My logic comes from understanding how the electric grid works. Generation, like the Seaholm Power Plant, can be put anywhere to serve Austin's needs, as long as it plugs into the ERCOT grid.

Substations, on the other hand, are part of the distribution system, and in the case of this substation, it is (probably) converting transmission-level voltages down to distribution-level voltages and HAS to be in this vicinity to serve local load.

In other words, IF the substation was ever to be relocated, it could not be moved vary far from its current position. It would still have to have large capacity power lines running into it, and the lines running out of it would still power nearby buildings.

With all the development going on in the western portion of downtown (and increasing property values), WHERE would it go, and WHO would want the City of Austin (Austin Energy) to condemn their property (through eminent domain) just so that AE could put the substation on that property? Answer: no one, so it would have to be put underground. The high voltage power lines in and out of it would also have to be put underground somewhere in the city, and the entry and exit points secured (unless all the distribution power lines in the area are ALSO put underground).

I can imagine that just putting the substation alone underground would be insanely expensive, and the land in western downtown Austin is not THAT valuable to make the effort worthwhile for the city, even 20 years from now.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 6:38 PM
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probably crazy but what about building over the substation and covering it. I know some places disguise the stations with a facade building. think there would be any way to do something similar to a station that is already there and active?
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  #1208  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 7:04 PM
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How do cities like New York City or San Francisco handle these where space is limited?
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  #1209  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 7:15 PM
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How do cities like New York City or San Francisco handle these where space is limited?
They bury them, but because space is limited land costs more. Therefore, they have the property tax revenue to afford burying them.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2017, 6:23 PM
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  #1211  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2017, 7:46 PM
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Looks like 5th and West in the background has started working on the tower portion of the building.
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  #1212  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 5:35 AM
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How many floors until the first sideways shift for the tower? (otherwise known as a Jenga move)
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  #1213  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 6:55 AM
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How many floors until the first sideways shift for the tower? (otherwise known as a Jenga move)
Just 9 more. It seems like just a little more than a couple more months. By that time we will also see Fifth and West rising even faster. (By the way, I' m in LA. I would have to be a vampire bat to be awake in Austin. I'm sure China is nice and sunny about now!
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  #1214  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 2:07 PM
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I drive by this guy on my way home every day. Have been a little taken aback by how skinny the tower is turning out to be. The Jenga blocks, they aren't so large.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
I drive by this guy on my way home every day. Have been a little taken aback by how skinny the tower is turning out to be. The Jenga blocks, they aren't so large.
I've been thinking the same thing. The renderings and even new murals with the Independent on the skyline make it look pretty massive but it's going to be very skinny. All in all I'm still expecting this building will not be noticably taller than the Austonian for factors that have been mentioned before. It will definetly have a much needed impact on the skyline but if your viewing the skyline from the east/southeast, the Austonian will look taller. View the skyline from the west/southwest and the Independent will look taller.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 8:13 PM
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  #1217  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
I've been thinking the same thing. The renderings and even new murals with the Independent on the skyline make it look pretty massive but it's going to be very skinny. All in all I'm still expecting this building will not be noticably taller than the Austonian for factors that have been mentioned before. It will definetly have a much needed impact on the skyline but if your viewing the skyline from the east/southeast, the Austonian will look taller. View the skyline from the west/southwest and the Independent will look taller.
Flanked by the Monarch and 360, it will be wider than them looking from the south. I'm glad its cube shaped. Once the skin is put on, it will look less skinny. Being only 58 stories tall will help it look less ridiculous than 111 West 57th Street in NYC. I was never totally on board with the Independent, but now I think it will be the most significant and important add on to the skyline in a long time and for a long time, and it will rise very fast, like the Legacy did.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 7:49 PM
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Flanked by the Monarch and 360, it will be wider than them looking from the south. I'm glad its cube shaped. Once the skin is put on, it will look less skinny. Being only 58 stories tall will help it look less ridiculous than 111 West 57th Street in NYC. I was never totally on board with the Independent, but now I think it will be the most significant and important add on to the skyline in a long time and for a long time, and it will rise very fast, like the Legacy did.

That's true, it's wider viewing from the south/north. I hope that it doesn't stay the most significant add to the skyline for a long time. Would like to think that we will break the 700 foot glass ceiling sooner rather than later.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
That's true, it's wider viewing from the south/north. I hope that it doesn't stay the most significant add to the skyline for a long time. Would like to think that we will break the 700 foot glass ceiling sooner rather than later.
I always have to remind myself that there are several upcoming opportunities for building bigly in the downtown area. Green Water Block 85, the Travis County Courthouse block, the enormous Waller Creek plot, the additional Manchester-owned block on 4th and Red River, etc. All seem to be mostly without CVC problems, all seem to be moving in one form or another forward.
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  #1220  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 6:46 PM
wwmiv wwmiv is offline
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I always have to remind myself that there are several upcoming opportunities for building bigly in the downtown area. Green Water Block 85, the Travis County Courthouse block, the enormous Waller Creek plot, the additional Manchester-owned block on 4th and Red River, etc. All seem to be mostly without CVC problems, all seem to be moving in one form or another forward.
Green Water Block 85 probably will be the smallest building of the entire set of developments put into motion by the city ~20 years ago, so don't hold your breath on that one. It's subject to multiple waterfront overlays. And the Waller Creek plots probably aren't going anywhere with the current developer.

That being said, the others are likely to be big, but not blockbuster:

The TravisCoCt block is probably going to be another ~400' building.

And all indications so far suggest that the Manchester development is going to be another ~400' building.

I'm also watching Brackenridge and the UT tract on 6th for the next superstar buildings, but even they are unlikely to be ~600'+.

The next big blockbuster building probably isn't on our radar yet (there are a decent* number of easily developable sites left in downtown that aren't on the development map yet) or is a parcel that's fallen off the radar (e.g. the post office site).

*there's really not. Almost all of the land in downtown Austin has either been recently developed, has historic architecture or is limited by a CVC (and we're expanding those, no less), or is spoken for in active (Brackenridge, Med School, GreenWater, Plaza Saltillo), 'active' (Waller Creek), or about to be active (Statesman, Convention Center, Cap Complex) development plans (obviously I'm only mentioning the blockbuster projects). On all sides, downtown is now bookended by neighborhoods that have substantial political power to prevent high-rise development in their VMU corridors (but so far have lacked the political power to cancel most VMU development). I think we're at the point where we'll see slower and slower pace of development downtown announced over time and shift toward the Domain where land is cheaper AND/OR we'll finally see some of these developments actually go taller than they are now because we're actually running out of developable space downtown (this, of course, is driven in some measure by demand). There are, also worth mentioning, a number of parking lots in between 6th and 11th that aren't spoken for that could be developed with low to medium rise stuff with a sporadic high-rise where a CVC doesn't affect a lot. There are also a lot of parking lots south of the river outside of the Statesman lot that could be used for infill once the Statesman project is a catalyst for that area. But none of these is likely to end up with a structure rivaling the Independent or the Austonian. There may be some potential for one of the few remaining developable parcels in the Rainey street area for a 600'+ building. Maybe.

All of this is to say that The Independent and Austonian may very well be our co-tallest* buildings for a good time to come.

They'll appear, for all intents and purposes, as visually equivalent given their very similar heights and that the shorter of the two sits on slightly higher ground.

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 22, 2017 at 6:58 PM. Reason: Disclaimer: all my opinion
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