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  #21  
Old Posted May 2, 2008, 8:12 PM
highwater highwater is offline
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
If we get LRT than I would support keeping Main St as one way...
What about the merchants on Main St.? The Main West Esplanade has all the right elements. I'm convinced that all it needs is two-way reversion and it will take off. It deserves a chance.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 2, 2008, 8:30 PM
FairHamilton FairHamilton is offline
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Cyclist can share the transit lane.
I don't get it.

I'm being serious and only trying to understand that set-up. I've never heard of a separated transit right of way for both cyclists and LRT. Are there examples elsewhere?

I've seen emergency vehicles use the dedicated curbed TTC streetcar lanes on Spadina, but could never imagine mixing cyclists into a set-up like that one.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 2, 2008, 8:34 PM
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I think she's confusing a boon for car travel in the city, with a boon for the city. Her letter (article) makes that perfectly clear. At least to me.
This says it all. The logic behind Turcotte's argument is perverse, and her conclusion facile. The article betrays the fact that she is completely out of touch with the notion of a modern urban dynamic. The one-way/two-way issue is not about traffic facilitation and getting drivers to pull over and shop (she's right, this probably isn't going to happen); it is about forging a liveable urban environment in which one does not feel alienated from one's surroundings.

"The frustration of driving on two-way streets does not encourage motorists to pull into a parking space (if one can be found) and visit one of the businesses along the way.

Instead, it just makes them want to get out of the city as quickly as possible, and never come back."

This argument has almost no basis in fact. Most of the world's great cities (both large and small) have at least a majority of two-way streets. To suggest that the experience of driving on a two-way street is so horribly frustrating that no one would ever want to visit these places is simply laughable.

The age of pandering to cars is over. The drivers passing through downtown, whom Turcotte refers to, do not alone hold the fate of the city in their hands.

It depresses me every time the Spec prints something like this.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 2, 2008, 8:54 PM
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It depresses me every time the Spec prints something like this.
And she's a freelance writer, so it looks to me like they paid for her opinion piece. Now that's truly a kick in the n*ts.

We'll see if my letter gets published, or not.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 2, 2008, 9:02 PM
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For a city as concerned about economic development as Hamilton I can't believe that one way streets have not been devalidated on this point alone.

Pure and simple two way streets facilitate economic development in the forms of retail and housing.

I cannot fathom why a local newspaper would want to push an agenda that runs counter to pushing economic development. Are they confused or just blatantly ignorant?
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  #26  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 2:43 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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Last I heard from city hall is that are considering leaving Main one-way with this two-way LRT setup as well as leaving Cannon one-way. King and Wilson are the streets they look to flip to two-way (again, depending on where the rapid transit goes).
that would be fine with me. 2 eastbound lanes on Main with some parking and 2-way LRT would be great. King can go two-way with wilson and cannon can stay one-way (I suppose) but for the love, please calm it down and narrow the road.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:34 AM
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The most recent one-way article reeks of the parochialism infecting Hamilton. I'm reminded of an old 1950's sociological dichotomy describing influential people in cities, cosmopolitans vs. locals. The terms are unfortunate because "local" people can be cosmopolitan in outlook, it describes one's worldview. Basically the perspective of cosmopolitans reaches beyond their local to the wider world of ideas; that of locals is narrow and conservative. There's nothing wrong with the local worldview in itself (many good people who fill important roles are "locals") but it's a problem when the local perspective dominates, as it does in Hamilton.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
exactly. Who cares what someone in Flimsby thinks.
I care about what people in Grimsby think.

Please stop dismissing the opinions of others based strictly on their geographic locations.
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  #29  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 11:29 AM
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I care about what people in Grimsby think about Grimsby. I don't care about what people who never come downtown think about downtown.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 12:13 PM
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I care about what people in Grimsby think about Grimsby. I don't care about what people who never come downtown think about downtown.
Oh boy. She expressed her reasons for not wanting to come to downtown Hamilton --- apparently those reasons are not valid and we don't need her Grimsbian kind in downtown Hamilton anyway. Is that right?
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  #31  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 12:28 PM
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Oh boy. She expressed her reasons for not wanting to come to downtown Hamilton --- apparently those reasons are not valid and we don't need her Grimsbian kind in downtown Hamilton anyway. Is that right?
No, she said that she DOESN'T come downtown.
That's why she should just spare us her non-informed thoughts and stay in Flimsby.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 2:33 PM
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I care about what people in Grimsby think about Grimsby. I don't care about what people who never come downtown think about downtown.
Well someone needs to care. The idea that she won't come downtown Hamilton because of a two way street conversion is absurd. In general, it matters what other people think of Hamilton. It could go a really long way by marketing its potential in the suburbs.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
No, she said that she DOESN'T come downtown.
That's why she should just spare us her non-informed thoughts and stay in Flimsby.
She seems well-informed enough to know that James Street is now two way. She said that she does not come downtown for a reason. Extending your logic suggests that anyone who does not come to downtown Hamilton for any reason should stay where they are and never come to downtown Hamilton.

People who NEVER come downtown because of a lack of good retail options should stay where they are. People who NEVER come downtown because of shady looking characters should stay where they are. People who NEVER come downtown because they may run into you should stay where they are. Is this a proper mindset?

You live in some kind of weird bubble. People from Ancaster, Burlington, the mountain, Grimsby, et cetera, are local people who can help your cause and yet you consistently insult them just because they choose not to live in the two square kilometres that you consider the real Hamilton. Come on.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit View Post
Well someone needs to care. The idea that she won't come downtown Hamilton because of a two way street conversion is absurd. In general, it matters what other people think of Hamilton. It could go a really long way by marketing its potential in the suburbs.
Good post.

The suggestion that the conversion of a single street to two-way is keeping her out of downtown Hamilton does indeed sound pretty flimsy, but if that is her true opinion, then it is what it is.

I agree that it does matter what other people think of Hamilton. People in Grimsby should not be ignored simply because they are from Grimsby and because their opinions are not consistent with your own.

Last edited by BCTed; May 3, 2008 at 3:17 PM.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:18 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
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Originally Posted by BCTed View Post
She seems well-informed enough to know that James Street is now two way. She said that she does not come downtown for a reason. Extending your logic suggests that anyone who does not come to downtown Hamilton for any reason should stay where they are and never come to downtown Hamilton.

People who NEVER come downtown because of a lack of good retail options should stay where they are. People who NEVER come downtown because of shady looking characters should stay where they are. People who NEVER come downtown because they may run into you should stay where they are. Is this a proper mindset?

You live in some kind of weird bubble. People from Ancaster, Burlington, the mountain, Grimsby, et cetera, are local people who can help your cause and yet you consistently insult them just because they choose not to live in the two square kilometres that you consider the real Hamilton. Come on.

This will be the last time I repeat myself (so I suggest you actually read this comment before flapping your gums).
I didn't say that she CAN'T come downtown.
I said that she DOESN'T (by her own admission).
She knows the streets are two-way by reading the Speculator I guess.
People are free to come downtown from all over the place.
But those who NEVER do, have no business telling us what is right or wrong with it.
It would be like me rambling on and on about what's wrong with Winnipeg when I've never been.

If you like hearing uninformed, useless drivel from people who are clueless, knock yourself out.
People who actually come downtown and have thoughts to share are more than welcome to.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:35 PM
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I guess the article is just extremely frustrating because it is so miss informed. I don't know why these articles from people that don't go downtown continue to get published.

I guess it begs the question of why these individuals care so much about one way streets in downtown Hamilton when they themselves admit to not going there? Something is completely off here, why would someone care enough to write a letter to the major newspaper if they have no interest in going to that place? I mean why bother?

Something is disconnected and I cannot put my finger on it.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
This will be the last time I repeat myself (so I suggest you actually read this comment before flapping your gums).
I didn't say that she CAN'T come downtown.
I said that she DOESN'T (by her own admission).
And let me quote you again:
"No, she said that she DOESN'T come downtown.
That's why she should just spare us her non-informed thoughts and stay in Flimsby."

She does not come downtown (for a reason). Because she does not come downtown (for a reason), you said that she should "just stay in Flimsby." How is that not equivalent to closing the door on her?

Flapping my gums??? I am making perfect sense here and you are not. Any objective observer reading these posts can see that. What in the name of goodness is wrong with you?
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  #38  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 3:53 PM
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Think you two got your point across so end the bickering or I will.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 4:01 PM
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Think you two got your point across so end the bickering or I will.
I am not in the wrong. I am not trolling. I am not insulting anyone. I am not being intolerant. I am not writing anything illogical. I am not putting forth endless and senseless harangues about 95% of the population. I am not about to put up with nonsense and I will not be told that I am "flapping my gums".

I am not about to back down from such lunacy. You and flar can ban me if you must. My only request is that you not delete this string of messages (doing so would be akin to destroying evidence in my mind), especially if they are my parting ones.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 3, 2008, 4:47 PM
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There's nothing good that comes out of constantly butting heads against each other. Points have been made already. No need to repeat it and dilute the discussion about one-way streets. Allow others to get their thoughts, comments and opinions out on this topic.
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