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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 8:30 PM
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Hypothetical (or somewhat possible but not discussed) LRT Lines

Some I came up with:

A circle line
A Providence line (the one that was talked about in the 80s in some West LRT plan)
Some line that goes with Stoney Trail

Thats all I can think of
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 8:50 PM
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Being the Green Line (and West LRT) are following old BRT routes, route 305 and 306 are long-term future candidates.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:08 PM
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LRT: University Station -> West Campus/AB Children's Hospital -> Foothills Hospital -> Westbrook -> MRU -> WestHills -> 90th Ave -> Anderson Road -> Fish Creek Blvd -> Somerset Station -> Chapparal -> Cranston -> Seton/South Health Campus

LRT: East Village -> Inglewood -> SoBow -> Forest Lawn -> East Hills -> Belvedere -> Chestermere

Street car: Eau Claire Station -> Third Ave westbound -> 8th St southbound -> 8th Ave westbound ->11th St southbound -> 12th Ave eastbound -> 4th Street northbound -> Rivefront Ave westbound -> Eau Claire Station
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
University Station -> West Campus/AB Children's Hospital -> Foothills Hospital -> Westbrook -> MRU -> WestHills -> 90th Ave -> Anderson Road -> Fish Creek Blvd -> Somerset Station -> Chapparal -> Cranston -> Seton/South Health Campus

East Village -> Inglewood -> SoBow -> Forest Lawn -> East Hills -> Belvedere -> Chestermere
^yes x 1000

Why that line isn't already a thing is beyond me. That would make life so much easier for all the thousands of students and employees at MRU, FMC, and ACH. I think a stop downtown would be nice as well

A circular line would be awesome too, or at least a couple of stops in the beltline area connecting to other areas of downtown.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by *Stardust* View Post
^yes x 1000

Why that line isn't already a thing is beyond me. That would make life so much easier for all the thousands of students and employees at MRU, FMC, and ACH. I think a stop downtown would be nice as well

A circular line would be awesome too, or at least a couple of stops in the beltline area connecting to other areas of downtown.
Not sure how you would do a stop downtown with that line, Westbrook is about the closest you would get and would result in serious backtracking.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2014, 10:29 PM
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LRT: University Station -> West Campus/AB Children's Hospital -> Foothills Hospital -> Westbrook -> MRU -> WestHills -> 90th Ave -> Anderson Road -> Fish Creek Blvd -> Somerset Station -> Chapparal -> Cranston -> Seton/South Health Campus
Could be an interesting route, wonder if you could connect rockview and tie the N crosstown from Peter Lougheed into this route, you'd end up with all 5 hospitals connected.

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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
LRT: East Village -> Inglewood -> SoBow -> Forest Lawn -> East Hills -> Belvedere -> Chestermere
There are plans for at least from Inglewood to hubalta rd portion of this to become a busway in the near future, similar timeframe as the SETWAY, but costs a lot less so easier to get off the ground. I seem to recall some of the $52M going to this.

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Street car: Eau Claire Station -> Third Ave westbound -> 8th St southbound -> 8th Ave westbound ->11th St southbound -> 12th Ave eastbound -> 4th Street northbound -> Rivefront Ave westbound -> Eau Claire Station
Add to this a route that shares the north portion but continues south on 11th to 17th Ave, then east into the grounds and north on 4th st SE. Could become a great connector for the grounds to the rest of DT and the beltline.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryTransit guy View Post
Some I came up with:

A circle line
A Providence line (the one that was talked about in the 80s in some West LRT plan)
Some line that goes with Stoney Trail

Thats all I can think of
This is what I'd do, in general:
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 12:43 AM
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Could be an interesting route, wonder if you could connect rockview and tie the N crosstown from Peter Lougheed into this route, you'd end up with all 5 hospitals connected.
What would be the specific value of this? Last time I was transferred between hospitals, it was by an ambulance. Pretty sure that's still the case.
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Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 1:31 PM
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What would be the specific value of this? Last time I was transferred between hospitals, it was by an ambulance. Pretty sure that's still the case.
Could be quite useful for folks in the medical industry allowing continued commuting by transit if they are transferred between hospitals. As well hospitals tend to have a lot of housekeeping staff that it could open up more possibilities of work locations. Admittedly its a small market
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2014, 11:35 PM
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Would really love to see the LRT network as above built out.

Question: why does the city bite everything off in such huge chunks? Why do they have to build the entire SE line in one go? Why not build it to Douglasdale and then do line extensions like they have done with the NW line. Same thing could be done with lines outlined above. I understand that a certain portion needs to be built in order to achieve ridership levels.
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  #11  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 12:36 AM
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I think the problem with the SE line is most of the ridership starts at Douglasdale, so the final 25% of the line might bring 75% of the revenue.
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolv View Post
Would really love to see the LRT network as above built out.

Question: why does the city bite everything off in such huge chunks? Why do they have to build the entire SE line in one go? Why not build it to Douglasdale and then do line extensions like they have done with the NW line. Same thing could be done with lines outlined above. I understand that a certain portion needs to be built in order to achieve ridership levels.
Alongside what Dizzy said, the downtown portion of the line is by far the most expensive part, so by building to Douglasdale, you may have spent 75% of the cost for 25% of the ridership (completely made up numbers). It's often better value to build all at once.
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 6:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolv View Post
Would really love to see the LRT network as above built out.

Question: why does the city bite everything off in such huge chunks? Why do they have to build the entire SE line in one go? Why not build it to Douglasdale and then do line extensions like they have done with the NW line. Same thing could be done with lines outlined above. I understand that a certain portion needs to be built in order to achieve ridership levels.
It's a big challenge with the SE LRT project overall. Lots of potential riders, but almost none for the first 75% of the trip. Coupled with nearly zero to limited redevelopment potential on that portion for the medium term (once you pass Inglewood area), the whole thing is a giant boondoggle unless you stretch it all the way to the booming deep SE neighbourhoods. The problem with that compared to the existing LRT lines is that it's much farther before you see any benefit. Lots of people and growth down there, just really expensive and far to reach them.

One reason the nclrt is lumped in with it is the economics and ridership are vastly different: an existing popular transit cooridor ( busiest other than LRT routes ), huge redevelopment potential and consistent ridership throughout. There is no 8km dead-zone that has to be built but doesn't attract very many riders like the industrial park section of the SE LRT . The NC LRT has a different problem: the route is popular and accessible enough that people will force it to a higher standard such as underground and make the project much more expensive than it necessarily has to be due to perceived inconveniences of having a rapid transit line constructed down a primary road of your neighbourhood.

At least the industrial parks of the SE won't complain like Crescent heights will
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Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 7:00 AM
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Didn't they invent commuter rail for the kind of distances that the deep SE would require?

If you skip the nonsense with the industrial park alignment with a commuter system, wouldn't that make the most sense? The cost Would be much to high for the projected ridership to have a LRT - like service before most areas from quarry park inwards.

Could even utilize the existing downtown ROW which is the real expensive part.
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Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 7:23 AM
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That's an interesting point. Wikipedia classifies commuter rail as rail between the city center and suburbs more than 15km away. 15km away from the edge of the East Village down deerfoot is Douglasdale.
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  #16  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 7:32 AM
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Our LRT is really interesting how it performs the roles of streetcar, LRT, and commuter rail.
Downtown stations are streetcar like, every couple of blocks, then between downtown and Banff Trail it's LRT, about 1 km apart, then from there 3km apart to the end of the NW.
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  #17  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterG View Post
It's a big challenge with the SE LRT project overall. Lots of potential riders, but almost none for the first 75% of the trip. Coupled with nearly zero to limited redevelopment potential on that portion for the medium term (once you pass Inglewood area), the whole thing is a giant boondoggle unless you stretch it all the way to the booming deep SE neighbourhoods. The problem with that compared to the existing LRT lines is that it's much farther before you see any benefit. Lots of people and growth down there, just really expensive and far to reach them.

One reason the nclrt is lumped in with it is the economics and ridership are vastly different: an existing popular transit cooridor ( busiest other than LRT routes ), huge redevelopment potential and consistent ridership throughout. There is no 8km dead-zone that has to be built but doesn't attract very many riders like the industrial park section of the SE LRT . The NC LRT has a different problem: the route is popular and accessible enough that people will force it to a higher standard such as underground and make the project much more expensive than it necessarily has to be due to perceived inconveniences of having a rapid transit line constructed down a primary road of your neighbourhood.

At least the industrial parks of the SE won't complain like Crescent heights will
Well... building a tunnel from Eau Claire under the river to 24th Ave may cost about as much as building an LRT through all those low-ridership areas in the SE. BOTH lines will require a couple billion dollars before anyone uses them. Also, building a train barn in the SE would be less expensive than in the N.

Or.. we could just build the SWRR.
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  #18  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Our LRT is really interesting how it performs the roles of streetcar, LRT, and commuter rail.
Downtown stations are streetcar like, every couple of blocks, then between downtown and Banff Trail it's LRT, about 1 km apart, then from there 3km apart to the end of the NW.
Agreed. The C-train is a special class of it's own. Other cities that use similar technology utilize it in such vastly different ways that it's hardly comparable. Downtown, the C-train is similar to San Diego's system (but nicer); Mendoza uses it how we do on Crowchild (but with more modest highways and less bulky stations), Frankfurt often uses it how we do in Sunnyside and Sirocco (but also like a street car and a subway), and Edmonton uses it similar to Westrook (more underground stations). When Torontonians this of the c-train, they think of a streetcar; when Vancouverites think of the C-train, they think of the SkyTrain; when Montrealers think of the C-train, they think of heavy commuter rail AMT. Seimens-Duewag U2s are far more versatile than conventional categories. This suits Calgary's variable geography and built form, few existing railways relative to older cities, and stepwise expansion.
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Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MasterG View Post
It's a big challenge with the SE LRT project overall. Lots of potential riders, but almost none for the first 75% of the trip. Coupled with nearly zero to limited redevelopment potential on that portion for the medium term (once you pass Inglewood area), the whole thing is a giant boondoggle unless you stretch it all the way to the booming deep SE neighbourhoods. The problem with that compared to the existing LRT lines is that it's much farther before you see any benefit. Lots of people and growth down there, just really expensive and far to reach them.

One reason the nclrt is lumped in with it is the economics and ridership are vastly different: an existing popular transit cooridor ( busiest other than LRT routes ), huge redevelopment potential and consistent ridership throughout. There is no 8km dead-zone that has to be built but doesn't attract very many riders like the industrial park section of the SE LRT . The NC LRT has a different problem: the route is popular and accessible enough that people will force it to a higher standard such as underground and make the project much more expensive than it necessarily has to be due to perceived inconveniences of having a rapid transit line constructed down a primary road of your neighbourhood.

At least the industrial parks of the SE won't complain like Crescent heights will
The south line has similar challenges. It doesn't really hit high ridership until Heritage.
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  #20  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 1:39 PM
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The south line has similar challenges. It doesn't really hit high ridership until Heritage.
Good point.
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