Sidewalks of Calgary

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

I'm not sure I agree with the part in bold at all. You're saying The Kensington, Lido, Pixel, St. John's etc are going to bring a much more suburban feeling? Isn't that sentence a paradox?

Well it will be more pedestrian friendly in the sense of better sidewalks, plazas, etc but the quirkiness that was 10th Street will disappear. Suburban in feeling all squeaky clean and sterile - St. Johns is very cold feeling but does provide a nice, pedestrian friendly sidewalk.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by speedog

Take away the lay-by that someone suggested and then you'll have people crabbing about parking being taken away.

And what of the sidewalk on the west side of 2nd Street SW here - is it wider? It certainly appears so on Google Street View - one could opt to cross over to the west side sidewalk.

Yes, I fully realize that there are many sub-standard facilities in the inner-city when it comes to pedestrian safety but one can find alternatives that are safe. It's sort like that guy who lives in Hillhurst who recently complained about the route his daughter has to take to get to her optional out-of-district school - his Twitter tale conveniently didn't include some very pedestrian friendly choices that were easily available plus very little mention was made of the fact that it was his family's choices that resulted in some negative pedestrian/commuting choices being introduced into their family's travels.

Of note, I live in an almost inner-city community and regularly travel into inner-city communities whether it be via an automobile, bicycle or walking and am well aware of infrastructure deficiencies when compared to suburbia. Some of these deficiencies are getting fixed, some aren't and probably never will be - to me it's all a part of where I opt to reside. What I don't wish to see is some of the inner city character being destroyed to bring new developments and along with it, more pedestrian friendly environments - I like Inglewood and Sunnyside the way they are. Unfortunately, Sunnyside in it's current quaint state is going to disappear - St. Johns, the Lido and others developments will see to that. 10th Street NW is going to become a much more suburban feeling environment and a much more pedestrian friendly area as a result, but the quirkiness that was will be gone and that I will miss.

It may be easy for you to cross a street and avoid pedestrian-unfriendly areas, but what about if you were in a wheelchair? Is someone with limit mobility expected to memorize the sidewalk conditions of every route in town and avoid them lest they be blamed for living/commuting there? Even for fully-able adults, tiny nuisances can dissuade them from walking. Pedestrians must always come first. Asking people to cross the road due to an obstruction is asking them to choose between jaywalking or waiting for 2 extra traffic lights.

It's relatively cheap and easy to ensure high-quality pedestrian environments, and the benefit is enormous for health, safety, perception, street retail, and attracting people to the city. Let's just do it.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

It may be easy for you to cross a street and avoid pedestrian-unfriendly areas, but what about if you were in a wheelchair? Is someone with limit mobility expected to memorize the sidewalk conditions of every route in town and avoid them lest they be blamed for living/commuting there? Even for fully-able adults, tiny nuisances can dissuade them from walking. Pedestrians must always come first. Asking people to cross the road due to an obstruction is asking them to choose between jaywalking or waiting for 2 extra traffic lights.

It's relatively cheap and easy to ensure high-quality pedestrian environments, and the benefit is enormous for health, safety, perception, street retail, and attracting people to the city. Let's just do it.

Budgets and planning are two big factors at play here and the city is light years ahead of where they were if one looks at this same area some 20+ years ago. Is what exists in many areas ideal - no, but I suspect it's not as simple as being relatively cheap and easy as some may think.

[Fuzz]

Well, with winter on its way, I'm reminded of how awesome it is that the roads get plowed and the snow gets pushed onto sidewalks in many places. Priorities...

[LFRENCH]

One spot that always bothered me was between 16th ave NW and what google refers to as "Service rd NW". the sidewalk is right in between a road and a highway not to mention on a horrible slant.


Here it is
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.06705...xkyDdrlhOg!2e0

[Fuzz]

LOL, ya I always wondered WTF was going on in that area. The whole area between 16th, Crowchild and the restaurants is outright hostile for pedestrians. I used to live around there.

[lineman]

Come on. That's a median, not an actual sidewalk. Being that motels/motor inns were geared towards the auto traveller, I can see why the area lacks sidewalks.

That said, the area is evolving and needs work.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by lineman

Come on. That's a median, not an actual sidewalk. Being that motels/motor inns were geared towards the auto traveller, I can see why the area lacks sidewalks.

That said, the area is evolving and needs work.

It's a sidewalk that dies into a median, pretty strange actually.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by lineman

Come on. That's a median, not an actual sidewalk. Being that motels/motor inns were geared towards the auto traveller, I can see why the area lacks sidewalks.

That said, the area is evolving and needs work.

I present a back-to-school SSP challenge: Is there a way that in one foul swoop we could achieve the following?
-Make Crowchild non-stop
-Reconfigure the 16th Ave NW/Crowchild/University Drive intersection to free up land
-Remove the Banff Trail access road
-Accommodate east-west BRT, pedestrian, and cyclists passage
-Redevelop the entire south end of Banff trail adjacent to the access road
-Redevelop McMahon(?)

It's quite a puzzle, but what if there were some way to leverage land value/development potential against costs, kind of like a CRL crossed with a shady arena deal? The whole area has about 60 acres and is in a prime location.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by lineman

Come on. That's a median, not an actual sidewalk. Being that motels/motor inns were geared towards the auto traveller, I can see why the area lacks sidewalks.

That said, the area is evolving and needs work.

That little section is unbelievably shit though, for drivers and pedestrians. More so for drivers actually.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by milomilo

That little section is unbelievably shit though, for drivers and pedestrians. More so for drivers actually.

That's only because our standards for drivers are so much higher. Awkwardly navigating a weird u-turn that points you into a McDonalds if you're not careful is not as bad as being forces to jaywalk to a weird sloped median/sidewalk and then along a narrow bridge next to 70 km/h trucks, especially if they are splashing puddles, especially if you are in a wheelchair, especially when there are still FIVE high-speed onramps to cross before you can get to more comfortable terrain. Probably just as bad for cyclists. Where do you bike: with the trucks on the TCH or on a narrow sidewalk that's illegal for you to ride on?

I agree however, that it's shitty for drivers. We need to redo the whole thing. See above challenge.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by lineman

Come on. That's a median, not an actual sidewalk. Being that motels/motor inns were geared towards the auto traveller, I can see why the area lacks sidewalks.

That said, the area is evolving and needs work.

Their is an on again, off again "sidewalk" on the north side of the service road that crosses several driveways. Imagine staying in a hotel at the east end, and wanting to walk to Denny's. Now imagine doing it in the winter. Welcome to Calgary visitors, good luck getting your Grand Slam!

[LFRENCH]

well at the other end it magically reappears from the median, having disappearing sidewalk is nearly as absurd as not having any at all.

here
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.06714...W8n3C9ROtA!2e0

I bet this will be corrected once redevelopment begins to happen in the area under the new station area plan

[speedog]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

That's only because our standards for drivers are so much higher. Awkwardly navigating a weird u-turn that points you into a McDonalds if you're not careful is not as bad as being forces to jaywalk to a weird sloped median/sidewalk and then along a narrow bridge next to 70 km/h trucks, especially if they are splashing puddles, especially if you are in a wheelchair, especially when there are still FIVE high-speed onramps to cross before you can get to more comfortable terrain. Probably just as bad for cyclists. Where do you bike: with the trucks on the TCH or on a narrow sidewalk that's illegal for you to ride on?

I agree however, that it's shitty for drivers. We need to redo the whole thing. See above challenge.

Yes this is very poor design but it's something we've been stuck with since probably the 60's in that area. Any new developments in that area have addressed the concerns raised and in the real world, most cyclists that frequent that area know where to go. A person in a wheelchair - I would bet most of them would have enough intelligence to recognize that the noted areas are places that just aren't safe for them and I'd bet most wheelchair bound people would be using a vehicle of some type to access the few businesses that abut these substandard areas.

Over time, this will get fixed - one can already see it happening in other parts of the Motel Village triangle.

[MarkL]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

I present a back-to-school SSP challenge: Is there a way that in one foul swoop we could achieve the following?
-Make Crowchild non-stop
-Reconfigure the 16th Ave NW/Crowchild/University Drive intersection to free up land
-Remove the Banff Trail access road
-Accommodate east-west BRT, pedestrian, and cyclists passage
-Redevelop the entire south end of Banff trail adjacent to the access road
-Redevelop McMahon(?)

It's quite a puzzle, but what if there were some way to leverage land value/development potential against costs, kind of like a CRL crossed with a shady arena deal? The whole area has about 60 acres and is in a prime location.

One fell swoop. One fell swoop.

(Sorry, I don't think Rusty is in this thread)

[DizzyEdge]

Well, doing that all at once might indeed result in a swoop that is foul.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

I present a back-to-school SSP challenge: Is there a way that in one foul swoop we could achieve the following?
-Make Crowchild non-stop
-Reconfigure the 16th Ave NW/Crowchild/University Drive intersection to free up land
-Remove the Banff Trail access road
-Accommodate east-west BRT, pedestrian, and cyclists passage
-Redevelop the entire south end of Banff trail adjacent to the access road
-Redevelop McMahon(?)

It's quite a puzzle, but what if there were some way to leverage land value/development potential against costs, kind of like a CRL crossed with a shady arena deal? The whole area has about 60 acres and is in a prime location.

-Turn 16th Ave/U. Drive and 16th/Crow into diamond/SPUI interchanges
-Remove the access to 16th from the service roads, only access is via Banff Trail
-Downgrade 16th from its TCH status, direct it around Stoney
-Reduce number of lanes on 16th and add BRT lanes

That would go a long way I think, but without buying land there it would be difficult to make the place pedestrian friendly - it was clearly built with the car in mind (or, more likely, with no thought at all). It really needs roads going though it, rather than around it.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by MarkL

One fell swoop. One fell swoop.

(Sorry, I don't think Rusty is in this thread)

LOL mind blown! You just changed my world.

[MasterG]

Here is the excessively wide portion of 2nd Street between 11th and 10th Ave looking south. Lightly used by cars, heavily used by bicycles. Notice the 1m sidewalk on either side. Traffic light poles, no-parking signs and other obstacles are abound, all in the name to give parked cars more space. The signal post at the NE corner of 11th Ave is directly in the middle of the pedestrian ROW, effectively cutting a ~1m width into 2 section of 40cm or so.



This is what bothers me most: no one has to give up space on here. There is only 2 lanes of traffic and no turn lanes. You can fit a 2 x 3m auto lanes, 2 x 1-1.5m bike lanes and 2 lanes of parking and given the sidewalk back another metre or two to bring it a bit closer to something acceptable. Instead we have a unnecessarily wide road that gives no more capacity than if it was 2 or 3 metres narrower.

Further down towards Mission, 2nd Street has the same problem as 5th Street in Cliff Bungalow. No signals, no pedestrian bulbs/blinkers or improved-visibility designs and parked cars make crossing by pedestrian or bicycle much more dangerous. Wide unmarked lanes encourage speeding and sloppy lane wandering, at the danger to other road users. Construction closures of sidewalks on the west-side of 2nd Street at 18th Ave, 20-21st Ave further complicate matters.

This is the type of street that should be addressed in the pedestrian strategy, a few small and inexpensive changes can make a world of difference. Even a single traffic light at 21st Ave at 50-50 timing on short intervals would break up the traffic so to reduce speeding.

[speedog]

The sidewalk on the west side of 2nd Street SW in that block is wider than 1 meter - even Google StreetView shows that. There's even a Smart Fortwo in the picture which is just over 1.5 meters wide and that west sidewalk is obviously wider that that Smart Fortwo.