The Riff, East Village Pedestrian Zone

[Gunny]

Looking at the Videos and Renderings of the East Village it looks like the Riff is the link in the chain to bring it all together. It's going to be a few years before the potential of the riff is apparent on the Street. Get enough retailers and bars in there and the place will be something to actually feel like a cozy vibrant community. That walking link down to river and Pathway and Fort Calgary is great. A pity they are splitting it with a road at the 5th Street square. I would have thought a single unbroken route from start to finish without any traffic intersections would make it a more relaxing real pedestrian vibe. I wonder are the plans final? I did read somewhere that they look for community feedback, is there a way to make "Positive suggestions"?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Gunny

Looking at the Videos and Renderings of the East Village it looks like the Riff is the link in the chain to bring it all together. It's going to be a few years before the potential of the riff is apparent on the Street. Get enough retailers and bars in there and the place will be something to actually feel like a cozy vibrant community. That walking link down to river and Pathway and Fort Calgary is great. A pity they are splitting it with a road at the 5th Street square. I would have thought a single unbroken route from start to finish without any traffic intersections would make it a more relaxing real pedestrian vibe. I wonder are the plans final? I did read somewhere that they look for community feedback, is there a way to make "Positive suggestions"?

Could you please provide some links? TIA

[Gunny]

I was going by the models and paper maps in the EV Experience centre. Sorry but not familiar with the acronym TIA.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Gunny

I was going by the models and paper maps in the EV Experience centre. Sorry but not familiar with the acronym TIA.

I thought maybe you saw this online. "TIA" stands for "thanks in advance."

[Gunny]

There are photos of the model on other threads in this forum, anyone kind enough to post them?
Either way it seems like the Mighty plan for East Village is missing a trick here by splitting the Riff with an intersection like that.

[Gunny]

http://www.evexperience.com/area-guide

There is the Video, beside area guide, called
East Village 2016 Master Plan Animation.

1 Minute 15 seconds in then again 2 minutes 15 seconds in.
It doesn't really show the intersection though , you may want to turn down the theme music also as it is Ghastly.

[Rollerstud98]

Are you talking about that weird traffic circle like thing? What they call the 5th street square. I guess its a traffic square

[Gunny]

Well kind of , beside that the traffic cuts the Pedestrian Zone which is my point,
It could be so much better for the riff.
Obviously it would impact on drivers of which I am one but you know what I mean.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

Are you talking about that weird traffic circle like thing? What they call the 5th street square. I guess its a traffic square

I can't figure out what that is but it looks weird to me based on the video. What purpose is it supposed to serve?

[Rollerstud98]

I don't know but when I was working at EVH last year it was annoying having to drive around it at the end of the day to get out of there. My biggest gripe with it was people blowing through the stop signs. Probably supposed to be a town square or something. I did see some art up there one time or another.

[CCF]

5th street square has a number of functions:

- serves as a traffic calming measure
- acts as a reprieve for pedestrians crossing from one block of the Riff to the next
- a small gathering/public space

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by CCF

5th street square has a number of functions:

- serves as a traffic calming measure
- acts as a reprieve for pedestrians crossing from one block of the Riff to the next
- a small gathering/public space

It'll make more sense when there's actual buildings surrounding it on all sides.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

My biggest gripe with it was people blowing through the stop signs.

I don't blame them. They took a perfectly good traffic circle and turned it into... that.

Instead of having it operate in an intuitive fashion, they add at every corner:

3x Stop signs
11x one way signs
2x Right turn only signs
8x Do not enter signs
2x No right turn signs
1x No left turn sign

I might be missing some as the Street View is from during construction partially.

Either way, 27 signs to make one intersection work...

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I don't blame them. They took a perfectly good traffic circle and turned it into... that.

Instead of having it operate in an intuitive fashion, they add at every corner:

3x Stop signs
11x one way signs
2x Right turn only signs
8x Do not enter signs
2x No right turn signs
1x No left turn sign

I might be missing some as the Street View is from during construction partially.

Either way, 27 signs to make one intersection work...

Calgary really does over-sign. I had to check for myself on the 11x one-way signs. You are not exaggerating. There is also a scattering of no-parking and no stopping signs.

I would love to see a more intuitive design approach be implemented in Calgary for these kind of locations. My guess is that the attitudes, regulations and processes that create this mess are pretty deeply rooted so change will be difficult.

[Rollerstud98]

I do blame them, who cares if it's stupid they should be obeying the law regardless. Almost been hit a few times leaving work in the afternoon from some yahoo blasting through the stop sign.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

I do blame them, who cares if it's stupid they should be obeying the law regardless. Almost been hit a few times leaving work in the afternoon from some yahoo blasting through the stop sign.

Bad road design leads to dangerous situations.

People are always idiots, you can't change that variable.

[Tobyoby]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Bad road design leads to dangerous situations.

People are always idiots, you can't change that variable.

People as in drivers and pedestrians both. Most people on social media tend to blame the driver, but there are some really stupid ass pedestrians out there.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by Tobyoby

People as in drivers and pedestrians both. Most people on social media tend to blame the driver, but there are some really stupid ass pedestrians out there.

Absolutely, which is why road design that leads to people looking where they are going at a reasonable speed, as well as things operating as expected are factors in reducing incidents.

A traffic square that takes 27 signs to convey it's usage just might not be good design. It could have been a pretty simple traffic circle type setup with a square shape.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Absolutely, which is why road design that leads to people looking where they are going at a reasonable speed, as well as things operating as expected are factors in reducing incidents.

A traffic square that takes 27 signs to convey it's usage just might not be good design. It could have been a pretty simple traffic circle type setup with a square shape.

Or just delete one of the sides of the 'square' and just have one three way stop instead of 3. Easy, and the square would only be surrounded by roads on two of the sides.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Or just delete one of the sides of the 'square' and just have one three way stop instead of 3. Easy, and the square would only be surrounded by roads on two of the sides.

There isn't even 1 3 way stop currently. Only issue corner is 5th street heading south in to the square, that is the one people blow through the stop sign all the time. Biggest thing is people drive 50-60 km/h through there when the limits should be less.