Gore Park - Page 4

SteelTown · #61 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 6:39 PM**

Nice!

When I go home I'll cut and paste some of the images here.

What I don't understand is that they say westbound traffic will increase on Cannon, but don't they plan on keeping Cannon one way (that's according to the plan here).

raisethehammer · #62 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 6:41 PM**

a lot of stuff they say is bogus.
Like, check the charts for capacity vs actual travel levels on York/Wilson.
These guys are fixated on keeing the capacity WAY higher than the actual use, and they are fixated on keeping rush hour traffic at a high speed.
I'm interested in the mid-day travel patterns to base a street redesign. Not the 2 hours of rush hour each day, which should be slower for single occupancy cars anyhow.

SteelTown · #63 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 6:59 PM**

They do seem to really suggest that the future East/West rapid transit line will be going along King Street.

I don't mind the shared Gore Park. But I don't see the point in having the South section of King S open to traffic when the Northern part is closed (just public transit). That would require drivers to drive the South section of King and turn North on James to hop back on King St. Why not just force drivers to keep driving on John until Wilson and than turn westbound.

If they keep the South section open to cars a majority of drivers will just turn on Wilson instead anways. Keeping the South section open just sounds like a way to make a parking lot.

raisethehammer · #64 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 9:26 PM**

yea, I'm sure that was in there to appease the morons at the downtown BIA who are probably horrified by these images of cobblestone, cafes, patios, skating rinks and people (gasp!!!) in their downtown. Where are all the cars????? How will we survive without the cars?????

raisethehammer · #65 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 10:53 PM**

my vision for the north leg of King....shared space between LRT, pedestrians, bikes etc..... no cars though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/noelle_...7594176917965/

Have a merry-go-round, and ice skating rink. vendors, patios, cafes, ice cream etc..... very similar to one of the proposals put forth by the city.
The south leg of Gore could be closed to vehicles entirely, other than bikes, deliveries etc..... and have lots of patio/stall space.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:N...ared_space.jpg

Transit, instead of cars though.

SteelTown · #66 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 10:55 PM**

SteelTown · #67 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 10:57 PM**

I would choose the second option but close the South section of King St to all traffic. Just public transit would be able to go along Northern section of King St. Have the main future LRT stop by Gore Park, would be a kickass location for a downtown LRT terminal.

SteelTown · #68 Posted **Mar 20, 2008, 11:02 PM**

raisethehammer · #69 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 2:19 AM**

I get a kick out of that 2003 vision for Cannon St....wow. really impressive.
Keep 4 lanes of flying trucks and cars and slap up some nice lights and trees. haha.
Yea, I agree with you about Gore - LRT stop at Gore, peds/bikes only on the south leg.

matt602 · #70 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 2:24 AM**

I'm not a fan of how James, John and Hughson just dead-end at the Gore. Seems a little too dramatic and I fear it will kill the dynamics of those streets (probably moving crap loads of traffic onto Bay, Wellington and other North-South arteries)'

edit: now it seems that only Hughson would actually be dead ending. That thing is a little hard to read...

raisethehammer · #71 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 2:29 AM**

hmm, you aren't reading it properly. James and John will continue to function as full 2-way streets.
Hughson is the only one that is cut-off at Gore. The folks at the public meeting mentioned this the other day. The only way they would get cut off is with the option to close King from James-Wellington, which won't happen.
In fact, this would help John St...they could just put it to 2 lanes each way instead of having that 3rd turning lane onto King. No more bottlenecks for transit turning left onto King...buses that need to turn there would have right of way and be turning onto a transit-peds only street.
This plan would greatly enhance public life, transit and cycling in Hamilton while putting cars into a more appropriate scale and speed for an urban downtown.
Supposedly the city is choosing their transit 'technology' by June or July. I hope they go with LRT and we can get this ball rolling.

raisethehammer · #72 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 3:05 AM**

more Gore Park visions:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petergu...26942/sizes/l/

north leg of King: http://www.flickr.com/photos/herwigphoto/2331826971/
south leg of King: http://www.flickr.com/photos/reflexionvive/260054670/

HAMRetrofit · #73 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 3:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I get a kick out of that 2003 vision for Cannon St....wow. really impressive.
Keep 4 lanes of flying trucks and cars and slap up some nice lights and trees. haha.
Yea, I agree with you about Gore - LRT stop at Gore, peds/bikes only on the south leg.

I think what canon really needs is a 120km/hr speed limit and integration with pedestrians. Then is will really become a destination. I get so frustrated sometimes.

Millstone · #74 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 4:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

I think what canon really needs is a 120km/hr speed limit and integration with pedestrians. Then is will really become a destination. I get so frustrated sometimes.

What Cannon needs is an obstacle course for added fun.

mishap · #75 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 6:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

yes, they said this will be done at the same time as rapid transit implementation.
James to Wellington was one of the options.
James to John was another option.
partial closure and full closure were other options too.

OK, thanks. I missed the Wellington option.

I would go with full closure between James and John, except for transit and time-restricted deliveries. Having said that, I wouldn't want the time restrictions to be excessively harsh. You have to let businesses, well, do business. A lot of smaller places just don't have the necessary clout to tell their suppliers they want their goods at a specific hour. Any time between the rush hour periods seems reasonable.

Between John and Wellington, I would keep King open to traffic. As drivers learn they can't pass John St., they'll find other routes. However, I would introduce a queue-jump for buses (and LRT) crossing Wellington westbound. Oh, and the speed limit drops to 40km/h.

As for Hughson, there is the odd vehicle that needs to use that street, short of the city paying to rebuild entrances/ exits on other streets. In that case, impose a very low speed limit, like 15-20km/h, to discourage through traffic. Soft curbs wouldn't hurt either, encouraging pedestrians to use more of the road when traffic is not present. I would stay away from speed bumps, as they would discourage pedestrians, and they're just ugly.

The general impression I got from the meeting is that MacNab is still the preferred bus terminal location, though Hunter and the GO Station are still in the running. Assuming they go with MacNab for the terminal, and King for the LRT, here's an idea that's a little different. Use the south side of King for the LRT line, and run it right into the terminal. This takes the line off of King from MacNab to John, and keeps it out of the King/ James intersection. I admit there may be space concerns, but it's a thought.

raisethehammer · #76 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 12:32 PM**

I agree with your thoughts. Deliveries should be allowed on both stretches of King...we'll just have to get these delivery guys and UPS guys to stop driving like bloody animals and slow down through here.
I really don't think traffic will be all that clogged up on King at Wellington. People WILL go alternate ways. Back at Sherman it is a few hundred meters to Cannon. Wilson is planned to go two-way and I'm going to suggest they make it two-way to Victoria instead of Wellington for any sleep-drivers who forgot that King isn't a highway/through street anymore. They can go up Victoria to Wilson OR Cannon.
Also, at Wentworth, one can head south and pick up Charlton which goes right across to Dundurn. We have ample road capacity in lower Hamilton, which generally drives me nuts. But now it's allowing us to do something fabulous like this in our downtown without causing major headaches...it will simply require that people learn their new (just as quick) routes. This is exciting...it has the potential to change how we function as a city. Gore Park can become the centre of the city once again for dining/culture/shopping/cafes/nightlife/entertainment/festivals etc.....

SteelTown · #77 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 2:16 PM**

I personally don't mind the vision for Cannon St. Maybe 3 lanes instead of 4 but considering parts of King St will be closed for traffic I guess 4 lanes will be needed.

I know under the plan from Bay to James Cannon would be "Cannon Village" and from James to John I believe it would be the Asian Village or China Town.

King St W should still go two way but instead of 2 lanes for each direction have it instead 2 lanes Westbound, 1 lane for transit lane - Westbound and 1 lane Eastbound.

SteelTown · #78 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 2:34 PM**

Here's what I would like....

Northern section of King St closed to traffic expect public transit. Southern section of King St closed to all traffic.

Hughson with trolley service to connect TH&B Station and future GO/VIA Station at Liuna Station.

markbarbera · #79 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 3:12 PM**

Personally I like the idea of restricting King traffic through from James to Wellington. I can envision this stretch of King as pedestrian and transit only, with both directions of LRT running along it. The eastbound LRT can come in from West Hamilton/McMaster along Main, veer north along MacNab then east along King to Wellington, then south on Wellington to return to eastbound Main. Westbound LRT can run the entire stretch along King as per the current B-Line route.

Converting the entire stretch shouldn't be done immediately though. Just start off with restricting traffic between James and John, then extend the stretch to Wellington in conjunction with LRT construction.

raisethehammer · #80 Posted **Mar 21, 2008, 3:27 PM**

the more I think about it, I think the LRT should come along Main, both ways on the north curb. Then go up Hughson to King, along King to McNab and back to Main through McNab.
Hughson and the north leg of King would only be for transit/peds anyhow. The one block on King from James to McNab we could have the LRT lanes on the south curb of King.
As for the trolley idea, I think it should still run along James North from the waterfront/ VIA-GO station and then at Wilson go over to Hughson, along Hughson to Hunter GO Station. Remember, Wilson will be two-way so this route can be used both directions. I wouldn't want the trolley on Hughson all the way up to the north end. Just to Wilson in order to take advantage of the pedestrianized Gore and show it off to passengers as well as avoid the busy stretch of James from King to Wilson.