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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Central and Gulf Coast Florida (Orlando, Tampa Bay areas) still maintain some of that definite "southernness" that is found in the panhandle.
That may be true about the "southernness" thing but the Orlando area is starting to remind me a lot of SE Florida lately in terms of demographics especially with the large influx of Puerto Ricans since Hurricane Maria.
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 7:55 PM
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South Florida still has a Southern feel. It's in the African American communities in North Miami and Palm Beach. I have a white friend who lives in Westgate in West Palm Beach and have seen Confederate flags in many areas. Even Key West is still a Southern coastal town. But the Southern culture is not dominant. It's one out of many, like the different cultures up north in NYC.
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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 9:37 PM
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Not sure why people are still trying to sell the idea that S. Florida is in a separate region from the Southeast. It's not. It is only connected by land to one region and that is the southeast. It is definitely apart of the southeast United States. It doesn't matter if it's more ethnically diverse than Orlando, it is still very much a southeastern metropolis in the same way that NY is to the northeast.

If it's not a part of the southeast then what is it a part of? New England - no. Mid-Atlantic - no. Midwest - no. PacNW - no. Southwest - no. And no, they don't get a tiny made-up bubble region to exist in.
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sun belt View Post
not sure why people are still trying to sell the idea that s. Florida is in a separate region from the southeast. It's not. It is only connected by land to one region and that is the southeast. It is definitely apart of the southeast united states. It doesn't matter if it's more ethnically diverse than orlando, it is still very much a southeastern metropolis in the same way that ny is to the northeast.

If it's not a part of the southeast then what is it a part of? new england - no. Mid-atlantic - no. Midwest - no. Pacnw - no. Southwest - no. And no, they don't get a tiny made-up bubble region to exist in.
Here...
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 9:45 PM
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ny.
Let's rename it then. No need for that Spanish word for flowery non-sense of a name.

"Southern New York" -- think Southern California, palm trees, glitz, glamour, stars!

Or "The South of New York"? -- Sounds sophisticated and exotic like France or something.
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Not sure why people are still trying to sell the idea that S. Florida is in a separate region from the Southeast. It's not. It is only connected by land to one region and that is the southeast. It is definitely apart of the southeast United States. It doesn't matter if it's more ethnically diverse than Orlando, it is still very much a southeastern metropolis in the same way that NY is to the northeast.

If it's not a part of the southeast then what is it a part of? New England - no. Mid-Atlantic - no. Midwest - no. PacNW - no. Southwest - no. And no, they don't get a tiny made-up bubble region to exist in.
It's not a separate region, it's just unlike the rest of the southeast the due to its isolation and its predominant Hispanic culture. And no, it's not analogous to NY and the northeast.


S Florida is the head.

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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 10:18 PM
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It's not a separate region, it's just unlike the rest of the southeast the due to its isolation and its predominant Hispanic culture. And no, it's not analogous to NY and the northeast.


S Florida is the head.
I don't know. I disagree. I think Florida is being given too much lee way/sway especially compared to a state like California that is larger in area, more populous, just as diverse, multi massive diverse urban centers just like Florida, yet considered to be all within the same region.

For some reason, S. Florida wants to pretend to be a separate from what they are a part of.
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2018, 11:50 PM
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It's outside people, some who only visit certain parts of the metro, who may see South Florida as a different place in comparison to the Southeast. Yeah, it has a lot of Northern transplants and retirees in addition to Cubans and other Hispanics. But it also has a large Afro-Caribbean and African community with ones of the largest communities of Haitians and Jamaicans outside of the Northeast. It has a large Jewish community and a growing Arab/Muslim population.


Besides Miami-Dade county, the rest of South Florida is like the other diverse and populous areas in the US like NYC, LA, etc. It isn't just retirees. People actually live and work here in areas not related to tourism. It's a part of the South, but like Atlanta, Charlotte, etc, it's different from the greater state because it's urban and cosmopolitan.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
It's outside people, some who only visit certain parts of the metro, who may see South Florida as a different place in comparison to the Southeast. Yeah, it has a lot of Northern transplants and retirees in addition to Cubans and other Hispanics. But it also has a large Afro-Caribbean and African community with ones of the largest communities of Haitians and Jamaicans outside of the Northeast. It has a large Jewish community and a growing Arab/Muslim population.


Besides Miami-Dade county, the rest of South Florida is like the other diverse and populous areas in the US like NYC, LA, etc. It isn't just retirees. People actually live and work here in areas not related to tourism. It's a part of the South, but like Atlanta, Charlotte, etc, it's different from the greater state because it's urban and cosmopolitan.
You just described why it is different from the Southeast... by listing those unique-for-the-region demographic characteristics.

South Florida, overall, has very different political, economic, ethnic, cultural histories than the rest of the Southeast. It is a much newer, geographically-isolated section of the Southeast. It is not similar to the rest of the Southeast.

Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. are NOT different from their greater region. They are the urban archetypes of the Southeast. Miami is not. Get it?

Stop trying to compare Miami to NYC, LA, etc. as similar representatives of their respective regions. NYC is a product of the Northeast, LA is a product of the West Coast, Chicago is a product of the Midwest, Phoenix is a product of the Southwest, Denver is a product of the Mountain West... these cities reflect the influences of the greater regions they anchor. Miami does not.

Those cities fit the bill as archetypes of their respective regions, based on the political/economic/ethnic/cultural/etc. histories of those regions. Miami/S Florida shares very little of that history in common with the greater Southeast. The place barely existed less than a hundred years ago. And then was built literally by Northerners from the Midwest and Northeast as resort locations. Could you say that about Atlanta? How about Charleston? Savannah? Jacksonville? Columbia? Charlotte? No. You can't even say that about Orlando or Tampa.

We don't even have to get into the major demographic differences or functional differences.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Let's rename it then. No need for that Spanish word for flowery non-sense of a name.

"Southern New York" -- think Southern California, palm trees, glitz, glamour, stars!

Or "The South of New York"? -- Sounds sophisticated and exotic like France or something.
Nueva York?
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 3:06 PM
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Nueva York?
That works, but it would be a new New York.

"Nueva New York" or "Nueva Nueva York" or maybe, "Nueva York del Sur"?
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
It is actually the sneering disdain for people like these from the urban elites that brought populist candidates into existence and maintains them.
Well...I don't really care, these kind are so clearly proud of their ignorance and seemingly gloat over it at the expense of minority populations and I guess, the future of this planet. So, no sympathy from me once their island goes under water.
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 4:47 PM
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Well...I don't really care, these kind are so clearly proud of their ignorance and seemingly gloat over it at the expense of minority populations and I guess, the future of this planet. So, no sympathy from me once their island goes under water.
That's the spirit! Fuck 'em!
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 4:50 PM
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yeah, let those dumb hick bastards drown!
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2018, 4:54 PM
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You just described why it is different from the Southeast... by listing those unique-for-the-region demographic characteristics.
All that I stated that makes Miami and South Florida unique can also be found in other parts of the Southeast. Atlanta has a growing Afro-Caribbean community as well. Not as high as Miami's, but that's due to the latter's closer proximity to the Caribbean. And the African American culture is present in many big cities in the South, obviously . The Arab population is growing in many other Southeastern cities as well. Aside from the Hispanic influence, not much divides South Florida from other metros in the Southeast.

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South Florida, overall, has very different political, economic, ethnic, cultural histories than the rest of the Southeast. It is a much newer, geographically-isolated section of the Southeast. It is not similar to the rest of the Southeast.
That's partly true and ignores a good chunk of history. You do realize that South Florida today as a distinct cultural area from the rest of Florida and the South in general is only very recent? It was not always different, at least right before and a century after the Civil War. It has only became more distinct since the Cuban Missile Crisis and the increase of Northerners coming to live in the Sunbelt. It's also not that geographically isolated. If that's the case, Seattle is geographically isolated as well as Chicago and Denver. What you can say is that Miami has a stronger link to places right outside the country than it does to it's own region. This link isn't new for Florida if you know the history of the state. Maybe it's one reason it's different from the South?

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Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. are NOT different from their greater region. They are the urban archetypes of the Southeast. Miami is not. Get it?
I can see that now. But before, it was not the case. And what do you mean by different from the greater regional? When I mentioned that Atlanta and Charlotte were different, I meant that they are more cosmopolitan than their surroundings. Yeah, they represent the Southeast more than Miami. But then again, they are a part of one subregion of the Southeast that I mentioned before. The South is a geographically large area. You have mountains, highlands, rivers, and coastal wetlands with multiple influences. But there is a common Southern culture that is still apparent in all these areas, along with other influences.

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Stop trying to compare Miami to NYC, LA, etc. as similar representatives of their respective regions. NYC is a product of the Northeast, LA is a product of the West Coast, Chicago is a product of the Midwest, Phoenix is a product of the Southwest, Denver is a product of the Mountain West... these cities reflect the influences of the greater regions they anchor. Miami does not.
When I mentioned NYC and LA, I wasn't trying to say that South Florida also represents its greater regional like they do. What I did say is that two of the 3 main counties of South Florida ( Broward and Palm Beach) are not that different from other ethnically diverse counties in the US where you have different groups attaining middle class status, diverse restaurant options, etc, like Alameda county in the Bay area, Queens in NYC, Riverside and San Bernardino CA, Harris county in TX, and even Nashville and some of the counties around Atlanta and DC. Yeah, Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach don't represent the rest of Florida very well. But neither does any urbanized area in any state. NYC is similar to NYS and the Northeast, but it's also radically different in its scale and influence. It's so big it influences itself and others beyond Albany, Newark, New Haven, and maybe even Philly.

If Miami is a product of any region today, it's still the South and also the Caribbean/ Latin America and the North. It's the only US city that I can think of that is in close proximity to several different countries. From the very beginning, it was Southern because of the whites and blacks who came to contribute to the tourist economy in the beginning and Northern because of Julia Tuttle and Henry Flagler who wanted to place South Florida on the map for it's unique weather. If the US was not as isolated in the early 20th century, South Florida would have been more Latino/ Caribbean earlier due to being close to Cuba, Bahamas, etc. Even when Florida first became a state, those influences were still there.

Quote:
Those cities fit the bill as archetypes of their respective regions, based on the political/economic/ethnic/cultural/etc. histories of those regions. Miami/S Florida shares very little of that history in common with the greater Southeast. The place barely existed less than a hundred years ago. And then was built literally by Northerners from the Midwest and Northeast as resort locations. Could you say that about Atlanta? How about Charleston? Savannah? Jacksonville? Columbia? Charlotte? No. You can't even say that about Orlando or Tampa.

We don't even have to get into the major demographic differences or functional differences.
It's a different history but still the Southern connection is there. Who helped the Northerners build and maintain those resorts in Palm Beach and Miami Beach? Surely not more Northerners who only came to visit. Plus, the tourist economy was not the only industry there. It is a strong industry for the region, but that's for all of Florida and even still the state is a powerhouse in other facets.


But that aside, if South Florida is not part of the Southeast, which region would it be a part of? I don't buy the "New York South" thing because I've been living here most of my life and I barely see that. I can only say that South Florida is where the Eastern US meets Latin America. Take the Southeast, Northeast, and the Caribbean, overlap them, and you get Miami. I'm wondering if the same would be true of parts of California or Texas.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 11:41 AM
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One thing that makes the South different from New England: every other person claiming to have an ancestor who was "a Cherokee princess."
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post

If Miami is a product of any region today, it's still the South and also the Caribbean/ Latin America and the North.
Miami, to me, is one of the least "Southern" cities in the U.S., including most cities in the North.

You are far more likely to hear a Southern accent or find Southern food in a Detroit or Cleveland than anywhere in Miami-Dade, where most blacks are from the Carribean, most whites are from Latin America or the Northeast, and the "South" as a cultural construct, is totally alien in 2018.

You probably have more of a "Southern" culture even in CA, as the CA AA community is almost entirely derived from the South. Places like Crenshaw in LA are likely much more "Southern" than anywhere in Miami-Dade these days.
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 4:39 PM
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^^^ So I guess you and everyone else would agree that the Southeast goes from DC/Baltimore/ Richmond area to Orlando or Tampa area. Anything north of that is the Northeast. Anything South of that is something else.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 4:44 PM
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^^^ So I guess you and everyone else would agree that the Southeast goes from DC/Baltimore/ Richmond area to Orlando or Tampa area. Anything north of that is the Northeast. Anything South of that is something else.
Are we talking "South" as a cultural construct? I'd say south of Richmond to somewhere north of Orlando. I don't even get a hint of "South" in Miami.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 9:14 PM
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Are we talking "South" as a cultural construct? I'd say south of Richmond to somewhere north of Orlando. I don't even get a hint of "South" in Miami.
Then you've obviously never been to any black neighborhoods there.

The bottom line is people from the North that hate the South give Miami a pass. It's the only way they can wrap their heads around accepting the place.
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