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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Davies sale will help the Whitecaps for sure for the next few seasons. Without that, they are a perennial money loser, even with relatively low team salaries.
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Because of the franchise setup of MLS it's a bit more complicated than an owner losing or making money given that franchise owners are investor-operators, meaning that MLS effectively owns the team and the owners buy into both MLS as well as their local market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Both the Lions and the Whitecaps exaggerate their attendances. There have been a few articles in Vancouver that discovered both teams announced vs. actual attendance had quite the disparity -- several thousand per game.
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I posted these numbers a few weeks ago in the attendance/marketing thread for anyone that's interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Lots of pro teams do this of course, but probably not to the extent of this.
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I'm pretty sure most do to the same extent or more. Check out visuals of NFL stadiums and their posted attendances. The issues arise when teams are massively dependent on gate receipts to function. MLS teams in particular are relying less on gates as sponsorship and TV grows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
My guess is the Whitecaps paid attendance then many would anticipate. Factor in the lack of ancillary revenues for the Caps with no parking, no naming rights, limited concession revenues, no concert revenue at BC Place and their revenues are basically maxed out.
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MLS is offering additional ad space on sleeves starting next season worth between $1M-$2M per season per team. Whitecaps also benefit from general league-wide sponsorship deals include kit suppliers and TV deals which have been rising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
The Impact saw their attendance fall this year. Factor in the rise in team salaries from last year, no playoffs and no significant new sources of revenue and the team losses are fairly significant.
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See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Saputo said so himself although I'm sure some of those losses ($11 - $12 million annually) are a result of debt he carries on his expansion purchase and renos to stadium.
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Impact valuation and revenues continue to rise. As long as debt v revenue doesn't get insane then this is fine in the short term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
He wants to expand his season ticket base to 13,000 and raise the average ticket price but it doesn't mean he will be able to do that especially with the notoriously fickle Quebec sports fans involved. My guess is attendance will decline further next year.
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MLS average ticket prices on the whole are on the rise. Impact only had 9,500 STHs in 2016 and 8,000 in 2012 so 13K is a pretty good target to strive for, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
It's also well-known that Saputo Stadium is one of the worst stadiums in the league with limited revenue potential given the lack of high-end seating options. Saputo wants to invest a further $50 million into the stadium to try and keep up with the better stadiums in the US. The question is, will he?
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Could I get sourcing on this?
Just last year
the Impact put $3M into Stade Saputo to improve things like concessions and customer experience.
Losing a few million a year can't be that bad if he's considering putting $50M into the stadium itself. Again, MLS revenue streams are expected to continue to rise, so expenditures (see: salaries) can rise in step.
Most polls of MLS stadiums I found had Saputo around 12-16 overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
My guess would be if the situation remains status quo one or both of Montreal or Vancouver will move to a US city in the next 5 - 10 years if their current situation remains the same - no new stadium with complete control of revenue streams in Vancouver and a substantial upgrade to Saputo Stadium in Montreal. A better exchange rate would help too.
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See above. Also, MLS would rather expand into new markets than relocate into them for a number of different reasons. I have a tough time believing either team is entertaining the possibility of relocating. This is all speculative at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
As for Toronto, the additional home games from the CONCACAF tournament in the spring will be off-set by the lack of playoff revenue this fall. Also, attendance was down a thousand per game. I bet attendance will drop a little next year given how poorly the team played this year. As long as they maintain an absurdly high payroll they will continue to have 8 figure losses. With MLSE owning the team however, they are probably fine with the losses.
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See above.
Further MLS expansion fees will be filtered to the franchises to offset deficits in the short-term.
For everthing above, Isaac Krasny covered this pretty well:
"Even if expenses are outpacing revenue at this point, given the steady growth of the league and its ability to command higher and higher prices for equity stakes, it would suggest that those who have seen the books are convinced MLS is a solid investment. As recently as 2016 Providence Equity Partners opted to retain their stake in SUM, not something they’d have done were MLS a sinking ship. Additionally, were MLS to find itself in some kind of cash crisis, it would likely have little trouble taking on debt with such a robust income. And finally, MLS could always issue a capital call to its Investor-Operators, who represent well over $100 billion in cash and assets. It seems highly unlikely, given the information available, that MLS would suddenly fail."
https://medium.com/@isaac_krasny/unp...l-827f4b784bcd
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