Los Angeles OKs outlines of downtown football stadium deal

[osmo]

If the money is paid the team will be there. The NFL doesn't need LA, both sides know this. AEG doesn't want to pay 1B+ if a team is on life support.. both sides also know this. I said earlier the NFL has a bounty on the LA market for a 1B+ and they are not budging.

The only advantage AEG has over the the rest is their reach into the European market which the NFL so badly wants. The NFL has struggled for almost 20 years to get a solid footing in Europe outside of Germany, the UK which is the NFL's current test-tube is AEG's backyard - IMO this is a bargaining chip that can pull things in AEG's favor. But for sure this isn't a case of "if they build they will come" AEG wants firm commitment... NFL wants cash. Whom will bend first?

[pesto]

Originally Posted by mello

Interesting tidbit for city and demographic geeks. If the Chargers were to relocate from San Diego leaving just one pro franchise (the MLB Padres) it would be by far the largest metro area in the nation with only one pro sports team. All other cities who have an MLB team also have at least an NBA or NFL team. No city has just an baseball team and an NHL franchise.

This would be a huge embarrassment for San Diegans especially since this isn't your average metro of 3.6 million. It is very well known due to its tourism industry and has already hosted 3 Superbowls. A would say the prestige of the metro area would take a big hit and with only 1 pro team it would fall in to the category of a Jacksonville, Nashville, Portland, or Sacramento --

Even worse it would forever be looked at as a "can't do city". It is already the largest metro area to only have 2 Fortune 500 companies (Jack in the Box and Qualcomm).

Don't worry about where the Fortune 500 are located; that's just working slobs. For the owners and investors in those companies look at the North County and OC demographics: I am guessing more millionaire sports fans with time on their hands than anywhere on earth. (They rank 3 and 5 in the country among counties with the most millionaires.)

This is the old problem in SoCal. SD is the biggest city but the growth in population and especially wealth is toward North County, which is about as close to Irvine and the OC as to SD. The same logic drove the attempt to lure the Kings to Anaheim: 3M people in SD; 3M in the OC and another 1M in nearby IE and South LA county make for a bigger and wealthier fan base that SD alone.

SD just has the problem that it is too far south in the SoCal metro region (Ventura to SD) and this always makes it difficult to ignore the demographics of LA or the OC. The Chargers already regularly advertise season tickets and single game sales on LA TV and newspapers.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by J. Will

They would say MLS is a major pro team?

They treat it like one, so I'm sure they'd take issue.

[mhays]

From a money or talent perspective, MLS isn't major league. But if you're counting fans per game, some teams including outdraw the MLB/NBA/NHL league averages by a longshot. Seattle does 35,000 for MLS last I heard.

[jaxg8r1]

Originally Posted by Trae

Because the NFL is perfect as it is (and talent is catching up with the number of teams finally). Having 32 teams is perfect for the schedule and dividing it up evenly. Four teams in each division, and each conference has four divisions. Completely balanced unlike other sports. Adding teams would just mess that all up. Plus, you have teams like Jacksonville that were blacked out for the entire season last year. I guess Jax showed more potential when they moved there in the mid-90s, but it's clear they can't support a team. They need to move to LA. These other teams have support. St. Louis has the Rams' back, especially with Bradford now. Vikings are HUGE in Minnesota and they aren't leaving. Chargers aren't leaving apparently. I only see the Raiders and Jags. Both could move to the LA area (Jags in Downtown with MJD being the star and the Raiders to the City of Industry).

Jags have amongst the hardest leases in the NFL to break. They're not going anywhere, particularly now that they have a stadium sponsor (that the city game them 100% of the money from). And their attendance issues were only for a couple of years.

Not that facts matter much...but there are far more attendance problems in the league than Jacksonville (the Jags rank 24th in total attendance, and 21st in % of capacity attendance). Also their tv ratings are always among the highest in the league in their home market.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2010

Jacksonville was always about the future. Its a fast growing city (probably amongst the top 1/3 fastest growing cities in the league) It was the smallest city in the league when it started in 1995 (unless you count Green Bay), but now is larger than Buffalo and New Orleans.

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by Trae

Plus, you have teams like Jacksonville that were blacked out for the entire season last year. I guess Jax showed more potential when they moved there in the mid-90s, but it's clear they can't support a team.

I don't think any of Jacksonville's games were blacked out last year. They did quite better in ticket sales last year than many established teams that haven't been mentioned in this thread.

[mello]

Pesto: The idea that Northern San Diego County is just as close to most parts of Orange County as it is to downtown SD and Mission Valley is a fallacy. For example I lived on the Encinitas/Carlsbad border and commuted to Southern Irvine for 5 months. This was 55 miles each way. If I had driven 55 miles south on I-5 I would have been well in to Mexico.

So North County is much closer to Downtown SD then even Dana Point and areas in the far South of OC. Trust me I have lived in Encinitas, La Costa, and Rancho Santa Fe and I'm now staying in San Marcos. It is not that far at all to North Park and inner SD. Driving to Anaheim for a game, not nearly as close. Anaheim is as far North as Redondo Beach, bet you didn't know that but yes it is quite far North in to the LA basin.

And don't discount the amount of millionaires in the Southern portions of San Diego. Coronado, Point Loma, Mission Hills, and some parts of inland SD have big money as well. Plus think about driving from La Jolla up to Anaheim for a game, thats not going happen on a regular basis.

[Trae]

Originally Posted by brickell

I disagree. The fact that they only play 16 games with 2 each from in your division really screws it up. Outside of college football, the NFL season's outcome is most heavily influenced by it's schedule. I have no idea how to fix it, but I don't like it. The NFL has taken "any given sunday" too far in my opinion. There's too much perceived parity.

And this is exactly why the NFL is the highest rated sport in this country. Look at the MLB and NBA. Going into the season, you pretty much know which teams are going to make the playoffs and which team has the best chance of winning it all. In the NFL, you know some, but they are many more surprise teams that get hot at the right time. Makes the league more fun.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by Trae

And this is exactly why the NFL is the highest rated sport in this country. Look at the MLB and NBA. Going into the season, you pretty much know which teams are going to make the playoffs and which team has the best chance of winning it all. In the NFL, you know some, but they are many more surprise teams that get hot at the right time. Makes the league more fun.

I know I probably disagree with most people on the point. Flipping a coin doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me, but that what it feels like when it comes to the NFL season.

It didn't seem that bad when there were 3 divisions in each conference, but that could just be me getting old. 4 team divisions seems icky to me when the wildcard slots play so heavily into the playoffs.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by mello

Pesto: The idea that Northern San Diego County is just as close to most parts of Orange County as it is to downtown SD and Mission Valley is a fallacy. For example I lived on the Encinitas/Carlsbad border and commuted to Southern Irvine for 5 months. This was 55 miles each way. If I had driven 55 miles south on I-5 I would have been well in to Mexico.

So North County is much closer to Downtown SD then even Dana Point and areas in the far South of OC. Trust me I have lived in Encinitas, La Costa, and Rancho Santa Fe and I'm now staying in San Marcos. It is not that far at all to North Park and inner SD. Driving to Anaheim for a game, not nearly as close. Anaheim is as far North as Redondo Beach, bet you didn't know that but yes it is quite far North in to the LA basin.

And don't discount the amount of millionaires in the Southern portions of San Diego. Coronado, Point Loma, Mission Hills, and some parts of inland SD have big money as well. Plus think about driving from La Jolla up to Anaheim for a game, thats not going happen on a regular basis.

I don't disagree with what you say except in detail (the Big A is much closer to SD than, say, Redondo pier, either in distance or in time). All I'm saying is that from North County it is about as easy to drive to Irvine or Anaheim as SD. It's a familiar commute (as traffic on the 5 proves every day). PLUS if you are in the OC you are near 5M more residents in the OC, LA and the IE that are potential fans. And if you go to LA or Industry, millions more.

I'm not putting down SD; for sure it's got its own wealth and thriving downtown. I'm just saying that a bit further north you can draw from a larger demographic. No one talked about moving the Kings to SD but the Anaheim deal very nearly happened. Similarly, the push to put private money into a SD football stadium is very thin compared to the Roski and AEG proposals that are either fully funded or nearly so.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by mhays

From a money or talent perspective, MLS isn't major league. But if you're counting fans per game, some teams including outdraw the MLB/NBA/NHL league averages by a longshot. Seattle does 35,000 for MLS last I heard.

It's not in Big Four territory but it has definitely distanced itself from so-called niche sports/leagues by having better TV deals and control of their own venues (most teams). Anyway, my comment was specific to Portland as that city was mentioned. I'm not implying that they are indicative of success league-wide.

[jaxg8r1]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11224...t-in-2011.html

The NFL lockout is over, but home game television blackouts are looming. Who needs two?
The 5 Spot
5 Cities Vulnerable to the Next Bursting Bubble5 3-D Products Worth Buying Now5 Sleazy Gold Coin Scams5 Products That Can't Be Killed5 Bad Deals For Consumers To AvoidBeware Gold's 5 Hidden Costs5 Completely Worthless Collectibles5 Expensive Things You Shouldn't BuyMarket Activity
The Walt Disney Co| DIS DOWNGoogle Inc.| GOOG DOWNQualcomm Inc.| QCOM The NFL is only in its preseason and already home games have been blacked out in Oakland, Calif., and Tampa, Fla. That likely comes as little surprise to fans of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders, who saw only one of the two teams' combined 16 home games last year. It would have been 0-for-16 if the Raiders hadn't been in the running for the AFC West lead when they faced the Kansas City Chiefs in Week 9.

Listed here are Tampa, Oakland, San Diego, Cincinnati and Buffalo.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by jaxg8r1

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11224...t-in-2011.html


Listed here are Tampa, Oakland, San Diego, Cincinnati and Buffalo.

My brother-in-law is not using his tickets for the first Raiders game; he wants to see if there is trouble. I'm not sure if this counts toward the blackout since the seat is sold, just not filled.

[jaxg8r1]

Originally Posted by pesto

My brother-in-law is not using his tickets for the first Raiders game; he wants to see if there is trouble. I'm not sure if this counts toward the blackout since the seat is sold, just not filled.

If its sold, then it counts towards the blackout. In fact, only non-premium seats count (so the club seats + sky boxes do not count).

[jaxg8r1]

Another article (albeit an opinion piece) on Tampa's blackout problems...
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,4043672.story

The Tampa-St. Petersburg megalopolis is the 14th-biggest market in the country, but does not support two of the most solid franchises in professional sports. The Tampa Bay Rays have proven over the last few years that they are one of the most well-run franchises in Major League Baseball yet the fan base continues to be among the sport's worst.

The fan apathy toward the Bucs is even more baffling because Tampa has always fancied itself as a football town. But I would argue Jacksonville is much more passionate about its perennially mediocre Jags than the Bucs are about one of the hottest young teams in the NFL.

[sopas ej]

On a related note, from the San Gabriel Valley Tribune:

Industry mayor: Roski uncertain about NFL stadium plans, discusses building retail stores instead
Thomas Himes, Staff Writer
Posted: 08/26/2011 11:59:45 PM PDT

Developer Ed Roski Jr. has talked to Industry officials about the possibility of building retail stores instead of an NFL stadium on 600 acres of open space near the junction of the 57 and 60 freeways, Mayor Dave Perez said Thursday.

Perez said Roski is uncertain about whether his plans for an $800 million NFL stadium will ever come to fruition and wants a contingency in place.

"(Roski) doesn't know where this stadium will go at the end of the day," Perez said. "I got a feeling if he can still get the football stadium, he would love to have it, but he's covering all of his bases."

Long before Roski announced plans in April 2008 to build a 75,000-seat stadium at the site, he intended to use the land for retail stores and other businesses, Perez said. Roski's environmental impact report for such a project was approved.

But about a month ago, Roski expressed renewed interest in developing the site without a stadium, Perez said. And city officials gave him the OK, Perez said.

"He asked us if we have a problem with going back to the original plan," Perez said. "He's looking at retail again."

The only piece missing from Roski's plan to build a stadium has been the absence of an agreement with an NFL team to play in it.

And the competition to buy a team was ratcheted up last year when Anschutz Entertainment Group announced plans to build an NFL stadium of its own in downtown Los Angeles.

[...]

Read the rest by clicking on this.

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe they can kill 2 birds with one stone and have retail at the ground level of the stadium on the outside.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

Maybe they can kill 2 birds with one stone and have retail at the ground level of the stadium on the outside.

The most entertaining part is that no decision is expected to me made public until after the Super Bowl, so as to not create a "lame duck" season. That means at least 6 more months of speculating.

I am guessing that not only Calderon but the reps. from SD and Oakland are going to oppose liberalizing the environmental process for AEG.

[J. Will]

Toronto FC averages 20,000+ per game, but that certainly doesn't make it a major pro team.

[jaxg8r1]

Originally Posted by J. Will

Toronto FC averages 20,000+ per game, but that certainly doesn't make it a major pro team.

I'm not sure attendance is the only criteria that makes something a major pro team. Seattle Sounders FC averages over 36000 per game, which is quite a bit more than the major Euro leagues average. But MLS is the top soccer division in North America (excluding Mexico), and it continues to grow.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if in 10 years Toronto were averaging over 30k (obviously with stadium expansion).