Stone Abbey, Southminster Church [1040 Bank St] | ?m | 6f | U/C

rocketphish · #1 Posted **Aug 28, 2017, 5:34 PM**

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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

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Windmill to partner with Southminster Church on new real estate project

Craig Lord
Published on January 31, 2017

Windmill Developments, the team behind Zibi and the redeveloped Cathedral Hill Church, is now turning its focus to Ottawa’s Southminster United Church for its latest partnership.

Windmill partner Rodney Wilts says it’s too soon to know any details of the latest project, though he did say that deferred maintenance costs are a significant concern for Southminster, located near the intersection of Bank Street and Colonel By Drive.

The Cathedral Hill Church, Windmill’s most recognized development in church real estate, saw a residential tower rise from the building with much of the original facade maintained. Mr. Wilts said it’s not clear whether the addition of residential units would be a part of the Southminster Church redevelopment, which has been the subject of discussions for almost two years.

The time-consuming process was just one consideration at a recent event hosted at Zibi that brought out congregation leaders from across Ottawa to learn more about how redevelopment can solve the problems of the modern church.

No blanket solution

Panel member Bishop John Chapman, who represents the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa and helped facilitate the Cathedral Hill development, told the more than 100 in attendance a story about a group of people waiting by the bank of a river that once flowed strong and supported the community. Some, he said, stubbornly sat and waiting for it to flow as strong again, while others followed the river into new branches and made a new life by the banks.

This, he said, is the problem the modern church faces: Too many congregations cling to the churches of days gone by, while numbers dwindle and refuse to accept or embrace their new role in society.

“Our resources are meant to support the churches of the 1940s and ’50s – that’s our burden,” he said. “It’s not anymore supporting the work we do.”

Many of the large, impressive churches he spoke of around the world are in need of serious repair or sit mostly empty – and while this is a problem, it’s also an opportunity to make use of that space, often in the form of a new revenue stream.

That revenue doesn’t necessarily have to be in the form of residential conversion, though, says Drew Sinclair, principal with Toronto-based SVN Architects, who was also on the panel.

“Housing is not the solution to the church’s problems,” he said.

He gave examples from some of the firm’s projects in Toronto and Winnipeg, including a redevelopment that removed the church’s historic pews for a more flexible community space, and one that redesigned the altar area to transform the church into an effective performance space.

All three panelists agreed that the best redevelopment for a church is one that aligns with the congregation’s goals. This can often be achieved through partnerships, the panelists suggested, giving the example of bringing social agencies or daycares to operate in the church’s space and lean on churches’ histories as community hubs.

Mr. Wilts added that in the same way that residential units aren’t always the right fit for a church, development of any kind is not necessarily a blanket solution.

“If there are no bums in the seats, that’s something development can’t necessarily fix,” he said.

http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/2017-0...tate-project/1

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rocketphish · #2 Posted **Aug 28, 2017, 5:34 PM**

The proposal is to partially redevelop the Southminster Church site located at 1040 Bank Street to accommodate residential uses on the site’s westerly half. The redevelopment proposes retention of the existing principal church building that faces Bank Street and the replacement of the existing assembly hall with a mix of townhouse and mid-high rise apartment dwellings (mid-rise condominium) ranging from 1 to 3 bedrooms in size.

The proposal will result in a mix of residential options accommodated on the site’s westerly half while the principal church is preserved in both physicality and function on the easterly half.

The proposed mid-rise residential use building will consist of six storeys stepped back from, and accessed by, Galt Street. The building will include 14 condominium units, below-grade parking for 33 spaces, and a lane for vehicle access to be shared with the proposed adjacent townhouses. There will be three units per floor for levels 1-3, two units per floor for levels 4-5, and a single unit for level six.

The townhouse component of the proposal includes four townhouses of three storeys in height along the corner of Aylmer Avenue and Galt Street. Vehicle access to the townhouses will be provided from a proposed laneway that connects to Galt Street and separates the townhouses from the mid-rise residential use building. Each townhouse will have a driveway connecting to the shared internal laneway.

Development application:
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__ALH0HL

Streetview:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.39551...2!8i6656?hl=en

Site:

Renderings:

Norman Bates · #3 Posted **Aug 28, 2017, 7:03 PM**

Looking good!

OTSkyline · #4 Posted **Aug 28, 2017, 7:10 PM**

^Agreed! Looks like a very nice project, well blended with the church. I also love the stacked terraces, on the midrise. These will have nice views of the Canal during summer and Winterlude!

kevinbottawa · #5 Posted **Aug 29, 2017, 3:33 AM**

I thought trying to reproduce older architecture is a no-no. That's what the architect for the Chateau Laurier expansion said.

kwoldtimer · #6 Posted **Aug 29, 2017, 5:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I thought trying to reproduce older architecture is a no-no. That's what the architect for the Chateau Laurier expansion said.

I would call this more contemporary allusion than reproduction, but yes one wishes something of comparable inspiration could be done at the Chateau.

J.OT13 · #7 Posted **Aug 30, 2017, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I thought trying to reproduce older architecture is a no-no. That's what the architect for the Chateau Laurier expansion said.

The difference is that a lot of people are calling for a carbon copy addition to the Château Laurier. What is proposed her on Bank is using material similar to the old church for the base and glass for the upper floors. It will still be clear to everyone that it's a new addition.

I wouldn't oppose this approach for the Château, using limestone for the first few floors, maybe with less ornamentation and angle as the original, and glass for the top 2-3 floors.

kwoldtimer · #8 Posted **Aug 30, 2017, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The difference is that a lot of people are calling for a carbon copy addition to the Château Laurier. What is proposed her on Bank is using material similar to the old church for the base and glass for the upper floors. It will still be clear to everyone that it's a new addition.

I wouldn't oppose this approach for the Château, using limestone for the first few floors, maybe with less ornamentation and angle as the original, and glass for the top 2-3 floors.

And a turret!

Mille Sabords · #9 Posted **Sep 5, 2017, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I thought trying to reproduce older architecture is a no-no. That's what the architect for the Chateau Laurier expansion said.

I'm not sure who decided it's a no-no. Why would we deprive ourselves of millennia of human advancement in architecture under the pretense that it's "not of our time"? There are such things as timeless styles of architecture. If we happen to like those styles, why deprive ourselves of them?

Uhuniau · #10 Posted **Sep 5, 2017, 2:44 PM**

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Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

I'm not sure who decided it's a no-no. Why would we deprive ourselves of millennia of human advancement in architecture under the pretense that it's "not of our time"? There are such things as timeless styles of architecture. If we happen to like those styles, why deprive ourselves of them?

Why deprive the current generation of architects of their favourite sport, making modern buildings' users guess where the damn entrance is?

McKellarDweller · #11 Posted **Aug 29, 2017, 2:49 PM**

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Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Looking good!

I'm usually an optimist, but these renderings are too way good to be true, I'd say.

FutureWickedCity · #12 Posted **Aug 29, 2017, 4:01 PM**

I was ready to hate this but I love it! Windmill are a notch above the rest in this town. @kevinbottawa - I agree with you, people who say that reproducing older architecture is somehow wrong annoy me. There is room on this world for classic looking architecture as well as sleek, modern architecture.

kalabaw · #13 Posted **Sep 5, 2017, 6:34 PM**

Wow! Love the renders. I especially like the townhouses.

Uhuniau · #14 Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 1:17 PM**

This ticks most of the usual boxes, except for "traffic", "wind tunnel!", and "what about the children?!?"

Also, what happened in Westboro? I sure hope whatever happened in Westboro is contained to Westboro, one of Ottawa's trendiest and most successful inner urban neighbourhoods. You wouldn't want to repeat anything even remotely westbourgeouis anywhere else, I guess.

Old Ottawa South church seeking financial salvation from condo faces concerns
Residents raise concerns about proposed condo's height, obstruction of heritage views of church
By Matthew Kupfer, CBC News Posted: Sep 12, 2017 6:49 AM ET| Last Updated: Sep 12, 2017 6:49 AM ET

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As Southminster United Church turns to a developer to help its finances, Old Ottawa South residents have raised objections about a proposed condominium's height and the obstruction of heritage views of the church itself.

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Residents said they felt the church hadn't consulted enough prior to going to the developer, and that the church should have looked for alternatives to keep programs running.

Laura Urrechaga was among the 13 original members of Development Watch Southminster, a group that formed to organize people who were against Windmill's proposal.

"We as a community, want them to survive. But we want the importance of our heritage value to be maintained," Urrechaga said. "We do not want to be turned into Westboro."

Among the key issues is the height of the proposed building — six-storeys or about 19 metres — which is almost double what's allowed for neighbouring residential and commercial buildings, she said.

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"A long, residential condominium that is higher than the church doesn't have that same visual cultural heritage value. It does not represent our community."

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Resident Michael Lynch claimed the condo being visible from the Rideau Canal could compromise the waterway's UNESCO World Heritage status.

And some residents said the developer's rendering of the building had optimistic, mid-summer foliage on surrounding trees and didn't accurately represent what the view would be like the rest of the year.

kevinbottawa · #15 Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 1:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Resident Michael Lynch claimed the condo being visible from the Rideau Canal could compromise the waterway's UNESCO World Heritage status.

Wow. Quite dramatic.

Uhuniau · #16 Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 12:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Wow. Quite dramatic.

Called it years ago when I predicted that the World Heritage designation would be used as a NIMBY talking point.

J.OT13 · #17 Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 6:26 PM**

"A long, residential condominium that is higher than the church doesn't have that same visual cultural heritage value. It does not represent our community."

That's great, because the condo building is actually slightly shorter than the church. We're good to go!

citydwlr · #18 Posted **Sep 12, 2017, 7:46 PM**

I also don't see how a six-story condo that will be partially obstructed by trees along Colonel By Drive will have a greater visual impact on the Canal, let alone how it would be tall enough to cause UNESCO to revoke its World Heritage designation, when there's already a condo 3-times its height across the bridge at Lansdowne...

Robedav · #19 Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 3:44 AM**

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We do not want to be turned into Westboro.

The superior airs wafting out of this one statement alone speaks volumes.

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...some residents said the developer's rendering of the building had optimistic, mid-summer foliage on surrounding trees and didn't accurately represent what the view would be like the rest of the year.

A whole new NIMBY complaint category: "What about when the leaves fall from the trees!?!"

lrt's friend · #20 Posted **Sep 13, 2017, 4:43 AM**

I can guarantee that nobody who is a member of Development Watch Southminster is a financial supporter of Southminster United Church.

They claim that they don't want the church to close but are not supportive of a plan that will allow the church to remain financially viable.

Every church in this city is facing declining congregations and aging buildings requiring increasingly expensive repairs.

A glut of the city's best heritage buildings will have to be disposed of sooner than most expect and they will at least lose their heritage interiors if not face outright demolition.

I am not at liberty to make details public, but another historic church is now being considered for a similar plan as Southminster and one option being considered is outright demolition because of the limited land available for redevelopment.